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Frontier Airlines Killed My Pets

Posted Sun December 28, 2008 12:00 pm, by Skip M. written to Frontier Airlines

Write a Letter to this Company

Frontier Customer Relations,
I'm writing regarding a policy of Frontiers that led to the death of my 6 pet rats... In early December I was living in Yuma, AZ, and learned that my mother, living in Portland, OR, was dying. I had to quickly move from Yuma to Portland.

I had 6 pet rats and discovered that none of the airlines flying out of Yuma would carry rats. I checked the Yuma Yellow pages, and saw Frontier listed and phoned Frontier. I was told that, yes, Frontier did transport rats. Frontier did fly out of Phoenix, so I would have to take a van shuttle from Yuma to Phoenix.

I got the rats the medical papers they needed, arranged to have my apartment possessions moved to Portland, and made a reservation with Frontier for Dec. 15.

On the morning of Dec. 15 I moved out of my apartment for good, and took the van shuttle, along with my 6 rats, from Yuma to Phoenix airport. When I arrived at the Phoenix airport I was told that I could not check in for my flight because the weather was too cold in Denver, the transfer point for my flight!

When I made my reservation with Frontier I was told that the pets had to be be able to travel between the temperatures of 40-80, and the ticket agent seemed to imply that the rats would travel in a heated compartment hold. I also at least least 4 other times talked with ticket agents about the rat requirements and was not told about the temperature restriction.

After being told the rats couldn't travel I spent several hours on Dec. 15th at the Phoenix Airport trying to figure out how to get my rats to Portland, or house them in Phoenix. I already knew that Amtrak and the buses wouldn't transport them. I was told by Frontier Phoenix check-in personnel that maybe UPS or FedEx would fly the rats, but they wouldn't.

I phoned animal boarding houses, but the cost of housing my rats for several months until the weather warmed and I could fly back to Phoenix to get the rats was too much for me to afford. I also phoned the Phoenix branch of the Humane Society, and they had no ideas on how to transport the rats or house them until I could arrange transportation. The Humane Society did say they would take the rats if I put them up for adoption.

So, after several hours there I was in the Phoenix Airport, with 1 packback and 3 animal carriers (2 rats per carrier) and no way to get my rats out out Phoenix or house them without giving up ownership. I couldn't go back to Yuma for 2 reasons. 1, I had given notice and moved out of my apartment on Dec. 15th. 2, my mother was in Portland,
and dying. It might take 2-6 months for her to die, she said, but who could be sure how long she would live. I had to get to Portland as soon as possible.

So, as heartbreaking as the decision was, I decided to put the rats up for adoption with the Humane Society. I would then fly to Portland, and in Portland try to figure out a way to get the rats to Portland, and pay the adoption fee to get back ownership of the rats, hopefully before the Humane Society found new homes for the rats. I took a taxi from the Phoenix Airport to the Humane Society, and gave my boys to the Humane Society.

Later on Monday, Dec. 15th I arrived in Portland. When I got to my mother's I sent an email explaining all these problems to members of my online Rat Fan Club. I asked them for ideas on how to get my boy rats to Portland. By Tuesday, Dec. 16 in the afternoon it looked like the Rat Fan Club had figured out a solution to get the rats to Portland! So, with joy at the thought of again seeing my boys, I phoned the Phoenix Humane Society to see if I could pay to adopt them back.

The Humane Society told me that on Monday, Dec. 15th, after I had given ownership of the rats to the Humane Society, the rats had been put to death! The Humane Society vets had looked at the rats, and thought the rats might have a contagious skin disease. Rather than run tests to see if the rats did have a skin disease, the Humane Society vets chose to just put the rats to sleep.

I had had the rats checked by a vet in Yuma, for their medical transport papers, and been told the rats were healthy. Since Dec. 15 I have also talked with a member of a Phoenix rat club, and was told that the Phoenix Humane Society didn't have vets familiar with rat health. I also discussed the situation with a Portland small animal vet, who stated that the Yuma vet was probably correct, and my rats didn't have a skin disease.

So, my boys, my rats were dead.

Now I'll explain why Frontier has responsibility for the rats death.

First, off, don't blame the Phoenix Humane Society. They never claimed to be experts on rats and were merely trying to help me out of a bad situation.

So, back to how Frontier created this mess.

When I tried to check in with Frontier at the Phoenix Airport on Dec. 15th I was told that the temperature, including windchill, was 35 degrees below zero, and the rats couldn't travel at less than 40 degrees. Since then I have discovered that the average December temperature at Denver International Airport has been 30.3 degrees. The 2007 December average temperature was 26.7. These temperatures don't include wind chill. And the later in the month of December, the more likely for the temperature to be colder.

This temperature information was stated in a Public Information Statement put out by the National Weather Service out of Denver, CO, at 11:45 PM, Mountain Stand Time, Sunday, Nov.23, 2008. This temperature information doesn't factor in wind chill.

So, how often during the month of December is the temperature at the Denver International Airport, including wind chill factor, above 40 degrees? As far as I can tell, never! What this means is that Frontier sold me a ticket for transporting my boys, my rats, when there was absolutely no reasonable chance that the rats could be transported!

Whatever the reason for this occurring, Frontier Airlines needs to make corrections to ensure an incident like mine doesn't occur again.

Since corporations seem to only take complaints seriously if settling the complaints involve money, I expect Frontier Airlines to offer me financial compensation for the death of my beloved 6 boys, my rats.

I also expect Frontier to make a public apology, and release a statement to the media explaining how Frontier will correct the problem.

If Frontier doesn't do the above I will make sure that every pet club in North America knows of my situation, and encourage the clubs to complain to the media about Frontier's problems.

Sine some people will think it funny that a man would care so much about rats, let me tell you a little bit about the 6 boys, 6 rats, that were killed due to Frontier's fumblings:

1. Ghost, the oldest, 3 years old. He was an elderly rat, slowing down in life, wanting to pass his remaining days being treated gently, playing with the younger boys. He especially loved to let me know when the other rats wanted food, playing the role of older elder in the clan.

2. Frosty, 2 years old. Frosty had an abusive childhood,before I got him. Because of this he had a hard time trusting people. It took me a very long time, and much work, to get him to trust me. I can only imagine howfrightened he must have been during the procedure that took his life.

3. Waggy, 6 months old. He was a precious little boy who wanted his independence, from other rats, but loved to snuggle with me.

4. Jersey, 4 months old. He was the alpha rat, despite his young age.

5. Snuggle, 4 months old. He was a runt, and very shy and insecure.

6. Indy, 4 months old. He was extremely curious and outgoing. He loved to meet new people, and got along with every person and every rat.

Frontier Airlines will publicly apologize for their involvement in the death of my boy rats, will release a statement to the media explaining how Frontier will correct the problem, and will financially compensate me for the deaths of my 6 pets.


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by stillhere53 Posted Sat January 24, 2009 @ 9:37 PM

I have had pet rats, so I do not think it is funny that you cared so
much about them. Rats are very intelligent and loving animals. There
is no way they can financially compensate you for their deaths. There
is no amount of money that can make up for the death of a beloved

As small animals, they should have been allowed to fly up front with
you. As to the temp inside the plane, the airline was wrong. Rats
are very hardy, and if you had put a lot of warm bedding in their
carriers they would have been fine. I was living in Anchorage, Alaska
as a child. My pet rat go out, and made her way into the unheated
basement in the winter. We did not get her back for about a month,
and trust me, the temp. in Alaska in an unheated basement is way
below 40 degrees. Other than being extra hungry she was fine, and
lived another 4 years afrer that.

As to the Humane Society, so much for their no kill policy. Evn if
the rats had a skin disease, they could have been kept away from other
animals. They are the ones that killed your rats, not the airline.

I do understand how you feel and I am very sorry you had to go through


If you want an airline.. by Ms. Harleycat Mon January 26, 2009 @ 10:07 AM
by bido Posted Sat January 24, 2009 @ 3:25 AM

I suppose the smart thing to do would have been, after finding out you
couldn't fly with them, to leave the rats with a human friend in Yuma,
fly to Portland, and then figure out what to do about getting them
transported, rather than just turning them over to the humane society.


rats by Silly Guy1 Mon March 9, 2009 @ 7:53 PM

by puyro Posted Mon January 19, 2009 @ 7:05 AM

Totally not reading *all* of the comments, but I don't think Frontier
is responsible.

It's obvious to me that when it's that cold out, pets can't stay out
that long (especially a pet rat - they would freeze very quickly)
Without even reading Frontier's actual temperature policy I would know
they wouldn't be transporting any animals that day. If you substituted
a dog in this scenario, you wouldn't leave your dog outside in that
weather, so Frontier isn't going to subject your pets to that weather
because they *have* to be outside at multiple points.

And I'm trying to figure out why in the heck you would give notice to
your landlord the day you're flying out is the day you're moving out.
I would have told the landlord at least an additional 2 weeks to make
sure I was safely settled in Portland because you *never* know what
could happen. You could have ended up with no place to live and stuck
in an airport for days if there was a snowstorm that day. Not very


by friendofjimmyk Posted Sat January 17, 2009 @ 9:10 AM

....I don't believe Frontier was at fault.

The Humane Society made the decision to put your pets down. They are
the one who owe you the apology. You have a right to be upset...but
redirect your ire to the party responsible for making the decision to
kill your rats.

by Missy Saffron Posted Tue January 13, 2009 @ 4:31 PM

The airlines didn't kill your pets. If your pets meant so much you
should have driven them.


The OP doesn't have a license by Commander-X-23 Thu January 15, 2009 @ 3:39 PM

by myswtghst Posted Wed January 7, 2009 @ 11:40 AM

Alright, now that I've done my best to read through the letter and all
the comments, and I've responded specifically to a few things, I
really do feel the need to respond directly. I also want to note that
I'm not trying to be cold, just honest.

I'll start by noting that not only am I an equal-opportunity animal
lover myself, I also have a degree in Zoology, and have worked at
several shelters, vet hospitals, and a zoo. I love rats, can't wait
to own some (when I have the room), and I am truly sorry for your
loss. I can't even imagine how hard this whole experience has been
for you.

Anywho...given that I'm such an animal nut, when I have to travel with
my cats, or my Mom's dog, or any other animal, I'm extremely cautious.
As their caretaker, it is MY responsibility to be sure I've been
fully informed and am doing everything I can to ensure their safety.

While it would be nice if the airport had provided you with a copy of
the "Top 10" list currently posted on their website
eling-with-pets.do), had directed you to it, or even had taken the
time to read it to you, they didn't have to. While it's unfortunate,
they don't have to explain every last detail to you on the phone, then
quiz you to make sure you understand - there's a reason they post
their restrictions in a public forum. And it's up to you to make sure
you understand them.

Yep, you heard me - as a consumer, it's up to you to be a smart
consumer and educate yourself. As I said below, none of us would like
it if, when we called in to make a flight reservation, the ticket
agent insisted on reading us all of the carry on restrictions, flight
restrictions, any clauses or notes about flight cancellations,
refunds, etc. It would take even longer than it already does to just
book a darn ticket. The agent, who is probably overworked and busy,
will do their best to keep you informed. But in this day and age,
it's practically common sense to check an airline's website prior to

For every trip I take,I check the airline's website to make sure I'm
aware of their policies and restrictions, so I don't get held up at
the airport with a bag that's too large, or something I'm not allowed
to carry on. When traveling with pets, I'm even more cautious,
because it can be their life at stake. If a booking agent had said
two words on the phone I was unclear on, I'd be asking questions and
immediately locating their website to read up.

Frontier has their policies in place to ensure the safety of your pet
during a flight. Knowing that the cargo hold where the pet will be
during the flight may be very cold or very warm, especially during any
time on the tarmac, and knowing that the animal may spend a
significant amount of time there, as well as potentially out on the
tarmac prior to a flight, or while baggage is unloaded upon arrival,
they have to make sure that the weather won't compromise your pets'
health. This is admirable, to me, as well as making sense.

It is unfortunate that you didn't fully educate yourself prior to
heading to the airport that day. It is unfortunate that you didn't
question the ticket agent "is there anything else I should know?"
while on the phone. It is unfortunate that you felt you had no other
option but to take the rats to the Humane Society, and didn't bother
to pass along the health papers that you obviously had on hand. It is
unfortunate that the Humane Society made the hasty decision to
euthanize your pets.

It is tragic that your rats are dead. I will not argue with that.
But the only way Frontier Airlines could have killed your pets would
have been by allowing them to fly that day and exposing them to
extreme cold, potentially for extended periods of time. Frontier
Airlines tried to protect your pets, and in doing so, unfortunately
put you in a difficult situation that indirectly lead to their deaths.
However, I cannot in good conscience agree that they are, in any way,
directly responsible for the death of you pets.

I wish you luck, and my best wishes go to your mother, who I hope is
doing well. I'm glad to hear you've adopted again - there are plenty
of pets out there who need a good, loving home, which you can provide.
I just hope in the future, if you have the desire or need to travel
with your pets again, you do your research.


by Mrs. Sid Vicious Posted Mon January 5, 2009 @ 3:21 PM

First let me say I am deeply sorry for your loss. This must be a very
hard time for you.

But I think that your blaming the wrong people. You chose to take
them to the humane society. The air line did not make you do that.


by PepperElf Posted Sat January 3, 2009 @ 10:17 PM

The regulations dictate that pets cannot be transported if the
temperature is going to be too hot or too cold at any of the layover

It's not about being mean to you... It's because the pet cages WILL
sit outside on the ground at some point.

I know it's annoying... I had a hard time flying my cat out. Every
day I had to drive up and try again until it was cool enough to send
kitty. (It was the summer).

I understand the frustration at not being able to send a pet... but
this is not something to yell at them for. Why? Because the
regulations are in place to ensure your pet doesn't die during the


EDIT (forgot to include this) by PepperElf Sat January 3, 2009 @ 10:25 PM
by MLB30 Posted Sat January 3, 2009 @ 6:09 AM

both times I moved I chose to drive instead of fly(and we are talking
20hrs in a car with two cats.... not fun)If it was that important to
u, u should have drove. my cats are 8 and 9 and i would never put
their comfort in jepordy. i guess it may be a bit easier said than
done though.... im not in a position where i have a sick mother.


If you had read previous messages... by Casmly Sat January 3, 2009 @ 7:52 AM

nope by MLB30 Tue January 6, 2009 @ 6:40 AM

by eydieville Posted Wed December 31, 2008 @ 8:04 PM

my mother died on june 26 of this year. i know the pain of losing a
parent and pray it doesn't happen for you for a long time. here's
what concerns me: you go on and on and on about rodents when your
mother is near death. something is horribly wrong with your
priorities. i love my cat, too, but in the face of my mother's death,
an animal would be the last thing on my mind. forget the rats.
concentrate on your mother, you only have one. rats, on the other


He still flew out didn't he??? by Casmly Wed December 31, 2008 @ 8:37 PM

Just cold by ncognitohere Thu January 1, 2009 @ 9:50 PM

I don't think it's cold by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Fri January 2, 2009 @ 7:36 AM

But how do you know he isn't taking care of her? by CashFlowChallengedBellaSera Fri January 2, 2009 @ 8:22 AM

What's cold by LadyMac Fri January 2, 2009 @ 12:17 PM

Positive by ncognitohere Fri January 2, 2009 @ 12:28 PM

I do feel for him... by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Fri January 2, 2009 @ 10:10 PM

Look by ncognitohere Fri January 2, 2009 @ 10:28 PM

Oops by ncognitohere Fri January 2, 2009 @ 10:45 PM

I think that it is a good thing by Nate. Sat January 3, 2009 @ 7:04 PM

by Eddie M. Posted Tue December 30, 2008 @ 4:57 PM

Who knew rats could be pets and have unique personalities? You learn
something new everyday.

I have to wonder, with Skips mother so ill and him having no time to
make arrangements for his pets before moving. How does he have so
much time to respond to all the comments here?


Beats me (N/T) by Big Money Paul Fri January 16, 2009 @ 5:25 PM

by Shadowboxxx Posted Tue December 30, 2008 @ 10:14 AM

This is a tragic situation and I am sorry for your loss. However,
blaming Frontier for their death is a little extreme...it's like
blaming your mother's illness for their death because it caused you to
have to travel in the first place. Frontier didn't put them to sleep.
Why not blame United for not having a policy that allows the
transport of rats to begin with? Or Mother Nature for creating such
cold temperatures?


Not an Act of God by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:15 AM

But as Shadow pointed out by MA Cunningham Tue December 30, 2008 @ 8:10 PM

by dulynoted (aka duttycalls) Posted Tue December 30, 2008 @ 8:05 AM

I am sorry regarding your mom's illness and you having to suffer the
loss of your "friends" on top of that.

I know I still grieve for my "Oscar" my cat who has been gone for over
10yrs now. Pets love you unconditionally and expect nothing more than
some affection back from their owner.

Why do airlines allow smaller dogs on board where the cages they are
in can be put under a passenger seat, yet you could not put the rats
(albeit crowded) in a cage sized to fit under your seat? As long as
you had the appropriate papers stating that the pets are in good
health and disease free there should be no discrimination regarding
the type of pet you are able to take on board.

As for them being put to sleep by the Humane Society...evidently the
Humane Society needs to have vets on staff to tell the difference
between healthy pets and diseased ones. Plus you had the paperwork
stating they were disease free.

And, to answer your question regarding temperatures in Denver...they
have winter warm-ups during just like many other cities do during
winter months. It was 72 degrees there a few years back for a couple
of days in December...so it does happen.
Cleveland just had 67 degrees this past Saturday.

Please keep us posted if you hear anything from Frontier.


Cabine Pets by mikedthornton Tue December 30, 2008 @ 8:21 AM

Cabin...not Cabine by mikedthornton Tue December 30, 2008 @ 8:22 AM

so do I...LOL by dulynoted (aka duttycalls) Wed December 31, 2008 @ 7:48 AM

by Chris M Posted Mon December 29, 2008 @ 11:31 PM

From their site, a section of the pet policy, which is very detailed
and easy to read/understand.

"weather matters
To protect your pet's health and well-being, temperature restrictions
have been established to ensure your pet isn't exposed to extreme heat
or cold. It's not safe to transport your pet if the forecasted
temperature in any city on your itinerary is below 45�F
(including the wind chill factor) or above 85�F. If the
temperature is outside these limits, we can't transport your pet
unless you get a Certificate of Acclimation signed by your
veterinarian. The Certificate of Acclimation must include:

A statement by the veterinarian that, to the best of his or her
knowledge, the animal is acclimated to air temperatures below
45�F (including the wind chill factor) or above 85�F
A statement by the veterinarian giving a minimum and maximum
temperature your pet can safely withstand when traveling
The statement must be signed by the veterinarian dated no more than 10
days prior to the originating departure
There is a bottom line, please know that even with a Certificate of
Acclimation, we can't accept your pet when the temperature is below
10�F (including the wind chill factor) or above 95�F. We
stand by this rule because we love pets as much as you do and don't
want to see any harm come to them. Please make sure to keep weather in
mind when planning a trip with your pet."

They told you about this policy, you still chose to make the
reservation. The temperature did not work out. What more do you want
them to do for you? I just don't get it, at all.


Explanation by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 3:27 AM

Personal Responsibility by mikedthornton Tue December 30, 2008 @ 6:41 AM

RE: Personal Responsibility by Chris M Tue December 30, 2008 @ 10:28 AM

Slow down also by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:10 AM

So in order to be logical by LadyMac Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:16 AM

Web Savvy? by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 3:38 PM

o.0 by SiotehCat Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:55 AM

If you dont agree with me... by SiotehCat Tue December 30, 2008 @ 12:05 PM

Web Savvy by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 3:40 PM

Slow down, read what I wrote, and think by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:04 AM

Skip by Chris M Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:11 AM

Again, slow down, read and think by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:20 AM

That's fine by Chris M Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:27 AM

I am reading and thinking by mikedthornton Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:47 AM

by Gail H. Posted Mon December 29, 2008 @ 10:54 PM

It is such a tragedy that these poor little babies had to die to get
the attention of the Frontier Airline. They should be more up-front
about the pet/temperature policy, and if there is a problem try a
little harder to solve it. I realize most people think of rats as
pests, but to a few of us, they are the most awesome pet there is.
All life is precious, just as these six boy were to Skip.
Frontier Airlines needs to step up and take responsiblity for the
deaths of these family members and try to make a pet policy that can
work for ALL animals.


Why? by Chris M Mon December 29, 2008 @ 11:28 PM

If the airline thought "these rats are just pests" by Not myself today Tue December 30, 2008 @ 12:57 AM

This has nothing to do with life being precious by mikedthornton Tue December 30, 2008 @ 6:43 AM

Th e OP **was** told of the temperature restrictions. by CashFlowChallengedBellaSera Tue December 30, 2008 @ 7:50 AM

Let Me Clarify by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:25 AM
by Payneblayde Posted Mon December 29, 2008 @ 8:51 PM

I am reading this posting sitting with my best friend Thor a
stunningly handsom and hairless rat. This airline loved pets was
collateral damage of their wanting so bad to sell tickets at any cost
to the consumer. This situation makes me sick. I would NEVER use
this airline if my Mother's life depended on it. Idiots!!!!

Sue them, sue them, sue their butts off!!

Keep us posted.

Rats are some of my best friends


Carol by Chris M Mon December 29, 2008 @ 9:40 PM

Thanks for the support by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 10:42 PM

These pets were killed by ignorance by Not myself today Tue December 30, 2008 @ 12:44 AM

I wasn't fully informed by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:29 AM

by RedheadwGlasses Posted Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:02 PM

To everyone debating what the weather was like and what the temps have
been, the AVERAGE temperatures at 30,000 feet altitude are about 30
below zero.


Very Important Observation!!! by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:14 PM

Ummm....No, Pt. 2. by mikedthornton Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:29 PM

Rational? by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:40 PM

Come on, Skip by mikedthornton Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:47 PM

Mike is right by Chris M Mon December 29, 2008 @ 3:22 PM

I have to admit by Not myself today Mon December 29, 2008 @ 3:50 PM

Understandable :) by Chris M Mon December 29, 2008 @ 4:15 PM

Denver temperature by ST Mon December 29, 2008 @ 3:16 PM

Time to take Southwest to Denver! by mikedthornton Mon December 29, 2008 @ 3:41 PM

Denver hit a record low on December 14 and 15: by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Wed December 31, 2008 @ 11:49 AM

by Chris M Posted Mon December 29, 2008 @ 12:42 PM

Echoing what others have said, I feel bad about the death of the

That said, I don't see how this is Frontiers fault. They have a clear
policy. You could have checked the normal weather temp's for Denver
probably easier than a rep. could, as they may or may not have
unlocked internet access at work. Denver is cold in the winter.

They chose not to fly the pets. You can be mad at them for not doing
that, fair or not. However, the choices made once that decision was
made for you were all yours, including giving them to the Humane
Society. It's not Frontiers fault that you did not have enough money
to shelter them or to pay a shipping service like on flypets.com to
take care of it for you.

In short, Frontier did not kill your pets.


Consumers not expected to be experts by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 12:51 PM

But YOU are the expert on your rats! by olie Wed December 31, 2008 @ 4:47 PM

Chain of actionable events by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 12:55 PM

What law? by mikedthornton Mon December 29, 2008 @ 1:42 PM

Legal Theory by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:09 PM

I am a lawyer by LadyMac Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:40 PM

If so? by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:49 PM

A balancing act by LadyMac Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:58 PM

Question.. by Just Plain Harleycat Mon December 29, 2008 @ 3:40 PM

Exactly by LadyMac Mon December 29, 2008 @ 3:48 PM

That's what I thought.. by Just Plain Harleycat Mon December 29, 2008 @ 4:21 PM

Looking for an excuse by MiVidaLoca99 Sun January 4, 2009 @ 2:48 AM

LadyMac and Skip by Chris M Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:56 PM

Healthy Conscience by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 3:08 PM

Ethics by mikedthornton Mon December 29, 2008 @ 3:19 PM

What?! by Chris M Mon December 29, 2008 @ 3:20 PM

SKIP by Melissa J. Sun January 4, 2009 @ 1:58 PM

They had no way of knowing that.. by Ms. Harleycat Thu January 8, 2009 @ 1:53 PM
by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Posted Mon December 29, 2008 @ 9:00 AM

First of all, I do want to say how sorry I am for your loss. I lost a
beloved pet myself this year, and it still hurts.

When something tragic happens, we all want somebody to blame. It might
be ourselves, or someone else. And while it might feel right now to
blame Frontier, they didn't contribute to the death of your pets. Yes,
they were crooked in leading you to believe you should buy a ticket.
They should have refunded your money, and if they haven't, I hope they
do soon. However, they did not put your rats on a flight that killed
them due to the cold.

Had you never even made contact with Frontier, or had they told you
from the get-go that the rats couldn't fly, you would still have been
back at square one with the rats not having a mode of transportation
and ultimately needing to go to the Humane Society.

Again, I am very sorry this happened to you, I hope you find a way to


I have to disagree by Casmly Mon December 29, 2008 @ 9:25 AM

Perhaps being the operative word. by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Mon December 29, 2008 @ 1:48 PM

Other Transportation by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 11:51 AM
by Ladynoopie Posted Mon December 29, 2008 @ 7:11 AM

No, I DO think Frontier has some of the blame here. The booking agent
should have realized the rats would never be allowed on the flight.
But they wanted the money so they took it and ran.

And for all the people who say "you should have realized..." clearly
you have never lost a loved one. Or been told a loved one (mother) has
been given days to live. Sure, in other more ideal situations he could
have driven, made other plans. but his MOTHER was given days to live.
I'm sure all your mothers are glad to know you will keep a cool head
and wait as long as possible to go see them.

And as for the humane society...were they not provided with a clean
bill of health from the vet? the airlines required it. so Skip had it
on him. They were basically told by a vet the animals are fine. But
someone, who is NOT a vet, decided they must be sick and put them to
death. w/o even the benefit of a real medical opinion. OR even
consulting the previous owner.

Skip did the best he could under the circumstances. But outside
ignorant and greedy forces got in the way of best intentions and those
greedy, lazy and ignorant people won out. This time.

Bunches McGuinty


Bunches, by MA Cunningham Mon December 29, 2008 @ 8:22 AM

Humane Society by mikedthornton Mon December 29, 2008 @ 8:31 AM

Humane Society by CashFlowChallengedBellaSera Mon December 29, 2008 @ 9:59 AM

Not to mention.... by PsychoSekc Mon December 29, 2008 @ 10:06 AM

Ummm, no. by mikedthornton Mon December 29, 2008 @ 8:34 AM

I agree Mike. by CashFlowChallengedBellaSera Mon December 29, 2008 @ 11:40 AM

Wind Chill by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 12:01 PM

I understand your anger... by mikedthornton Mon December 29, 2008 @ 12:20 PM

Yes they were not evil or did so intentionally by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 12:40 PM

I agree Skip did the best under the circumstances. by CashFlowChallengedBellaSera Mon December 29, 2008 @ 10:12 AM

First flight available by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:41 AM

Just because folks disagree with you by mikedthornton Tue December 30, 2008 @ 12:11 PM

Frontier's FAQ page links directly to their pet travel page. by olie Wed December 31, 2008 @ 4:24 PM

by mikedthornton Posted Mon December 29, 2008 @ 6:28 AM

I feel deeply for you, Skip. I know how brutal the loss of a good
friend can be. I also know that one of the first reactions to the
loss of a pet can be deep anger at what happened and a need to find
someone to blame.

Case in point. When I lost me beloved Roswell in April due to a very
invasive heart cancer, my initial grief-stricken reaction was to tear
into the vet who, 3 months earlier, had given her a completely clean
bill of health. I kept thinking, surely the vet listening to her
heart could have detected there was something wrong. After some time
I cleared my head and realized that wasn't going to help.

I think in a few months you'll also realize that Frontier did what
airlines do -- gave you the guidelines and allowed you to make a
decision about what you wanted to plan. It's a tragic situation, but
I really don't think Frontier, or the Humane Society, or you, are to
blame. Sometimes really, really bad things just happen.

Best of wishes as you work through your loss. I know it's rough, but
the hurt does become less with time.


Culpability different than with a vet by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 12:10 PM

If medicine is an art.. by Just Plain Harleycat Tue December 30, 2008 @ 10:24 AM

Malpractice Explantion by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 11:45 AM

Actually by LadyMac Tue December 30, 2008 @ 4:52 PM

by Teresa B. Posted Mon December 29, 2008 @ 12:40 AM

I want you to know that your description of your babies is what got
me. I am in tears. I truly wish you the best and I hope things work
out for you.


by CashFlowChallengedBellaSera Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 11:46 PM

First, I am so sorry for the death of your pets. As a pet parent, I
can imagine how you must feel. And no, I don't think it's weird that
you love rats. Rats can make wonderful pets.

I read your letter a few times because I wasn't sure how I felt about
the situation. I'm still not 100% positive because I do feel the
airline has some culpability in this. However, I also think you're
trying to lay all the blame on this airline, and I don't think that's
entirely fair.

Here's why: "When I made my reservation with Frontier I was told that
the pets had to be be able to travel between the temperatures of
40-80, and the ticket agent seemed to imply that the rats would travel
in a heated compartment hold." So you WERE told of the temperature
restrictions the first time, just not subsequent times. Once you knew
of the temperature restrictions, you could have easily found this same
NWS information on the Internet and judged for yourself whether your
pets could fly. I know you had to pack and leave rather quickly, but
this was still information you could've found prior to the flight.

Also, and I'm sure this is going to sound harsh, but the people making
your plane reservation are not obligated to give you a weather report.
They told you of the restrictions; it was your job to determine
whether these restrictions were acceptable and whether you were
willing to risk it.

But I am wondering why you're not putting more blame on the Humane
Society. No, they're not experts on rats, but their vets should be
familiar with ALL animals they accept. It also sounds like you have
quite a bit of evidence, particularly recent health certificates, that
shows your rats were healthy. The HS also didn't run tests to make
sure their original diagnosis was correct, which, yes, they can do.
So, why aren't you holding THEM more accountable?


Consumers not expected to be business by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 12:32 PM

Humane Society didn't run tests by olie Mon December 29, 2008 @ 8:59 PM

Olie, I'm a volunteer for the Humane Society in Milwaukee. by CashFlowChallengedBellaSera Mon December 29, 2008 @ 9:29 PM

I'm only an hour north of you, then! by olie Tue December 30, 2008 @ 7:08 PM

Hello fellow Wisconsinite! by CashFlowChallengedBellaSera Wed December 31, 2008 @ 8:28 AM

No harshness taken! n/t by olie Wed December 31, 2008 @ 4:32 PM

Two more things: by CashFlowChallengedBellaSera Tue December 30, 2008 @ 7:57 AM

Thanks for the Humane Soceity Comments by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 12:04 PM

"So you WERE told of the temperature restrictions the first time..." by myswtghst Wed January 7, 2009 @ 10:59 AM

by evilipoo1 Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 10:48 PM

This is so sad. Rats are such smart and loving pets.

I don't understand why other airlines will not transport rats?
Especially if they have health certificates.

I'm afraid I have to agree with the person who suggested that you
drive the distance with your boys. I would hate to make the drive
myself--the only thing that would make me consider it is my two cats
who mean the world to me. It's worth the 1500mile meow-fest.

I'm really sorry for your loss.


Driving last resort by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 12:46 PM

I knew you had to have a reason by evilipoo1 Mon December 29, 2008 @ 7:34 PM

by Big Money Paul Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 10:40 PM

I mourn at your loss. Even though I don't like rats, but couldn't you
have found out a better way to transport them? Sounds fair to me.


Uh, by Casmly Sun December 28, 2008 @ 10:52 PM

Driving Last Resort by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 1:12 PM

by SiotehCat Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 9:40 PM

Im sorry for your boys.

This might ruffle some feathers, but thats the least of my concerns.
The airline is NOT have an obligation to your boys and neither does
the humane society. The one who does is YOU. YOU are their guardian
and their caretaker. YOU are the one who is suppose to protect them
and keep them safe. Animals are NOT disposable.

The Humane Society was not the only alternative, it was just the
fastest and cheapest one for you. The money that you spent for your
plane ticket, you could have rented a car and all of you could have
driven there. I know because I drove 1700 miles with my four cats and
a chameleon.

I am not sorry for you, I am sorry for your boys. They deserved
better. And im sorry to break it to you, but the people in the pet
clubs will look at you the same way I do. We take our role of pet
parents seriously.


Agreed by Big Money Paul Sun December 28, 2008 @ 10:42 PM

Give me a break! by Casmly Sun December 28, 2008 @ 11:01 PM

Legal/Ethical Responsibility by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 1:31 PM

Pet Club Responses by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 1:36 PM

by MA Cunningham Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 9:34 PM

you lost your pets.

And I realize it's of little help now, but couldn't you have packed
your stuff up in a UHaul and driven with them with you? I mean, I
know its a long trip, but better than having to go through this.

The whole situation is just sad all around.


Don't Drive by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 1:38 PM
by margo r. Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 8:49 PM

That is so incredibly sad, I can't believe it...Wow, you have my
sympathy. I'm with the others, drive with pets, I've heard too many
horror stories, I'm sorry yours was one of them. G*d bless you in
your time of loss.


Don't have a license by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 1:40 PM

by RedheadwGlasses Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 8:20 PM

I can't even read the letter.

I'm sorry, so very sorry, that your pets died. I decided long ago
that I'd never have my pets fly--I've heard too many horror stories
that I'm just not willing to risk it. I know not everyone can make
the same decision/choice.


I agree.. by Just Plain Harleycat Tue December 30, 2008 @ 10:29 AM

by SuzieCat Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 8:07 PM

I'm sorry for the loss of your beloved fur kids. As a fellow pet
owner, I understand your pain.


by PsychoSekc Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 7:26 PM

Before I begin, I am sorry about the death of your rats. As an animal
lover, and a former rat owner, I can understand your feelings. They
make great pets.

Unfortunately, you really can't blame the airlines. Animal travel via
airplane can be rather tricky. I know this as I show dogs and air
travel is practically ruled out during winter. Many airlines do not
allow pets in the winter time due to temperature as the reason is most
animals travel cargo and the temperature is not really regulated in
cargo. The only way you can get around that is if the animal travels
in cabin but that can be hard as the pet has to be a specific size and
they limit how many can travel in cabin. You don't specify that in
your letter but I'm wondering if you ever asked if they could travel
in cabin or if any special arrangements could've been made.

As you've posted, there are several rat clubs out there. Did you ever
contact them prior to your travel? I would think that several rat
fanciers would've told you about the hazards of air travel and
would've directed you towards folks who could've helped arrange
transport. Animal transport is really big among dog rescues and I
would think there'd be rescue folks who would've been more than happy
to help transport your rats.

In the end, I'm really sorry about the loss of your pets but I really
can't put the blame on the airlines. I mean, if they would've put your
rats in cargo then there's a high possibility that we'd be reading a
letter about how your rats died from hypothermia. What an unfortunate


"Can't blame the airline" by Casmly Sun December 28, 2008 @ 8:34 PM

Maybe it's just me... by PsychoSekc Mon December 29, 2008 @ 12:29 AM

Level of Responsibility by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 1:57 PM

This by myswtghst Wed January 7, 2009 @ 11:07 AM

by Not myself today Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 5:10 PM

It is logical to assume that if the airline suggested the rats must
survive between 40-80 degrees that they would *not* be in a
temperature controlled environment. No temperature controlled air
would vary 40 degrees. Therefore, the colder the weather, the colder
the environment the rats would have to survive. Frontier was smart
enough to catch the fact the ambient air that day would be too cold.
The ultimate demise of your rats is quite unfortunate, but the humane
society killed your rats, not the airline.


Remember air temperature aloft is a lot colder than on the ground. by Not myself today Sun December 28, 2008 @ 6:29 PM

Understanding of culpability by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:27 PM

by Merry Christmas! Nate. Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 4:43 PM

I never knew rats had such personalities. Maybe you can find some new
pets that need a good home and take care of them like you did for
Frosty- I am sure there is a humane society or pet group that could
help you out. Additionally, since you seem like such a caring person
who wants to help animals, you might consider raising larger animals,
such as cats for a local rescue if your apartment allows.
Additionally, I know there are many programs that need assistance in
raising service dogs.


New Rats! by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:33 PM
by oupiglet Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 1:18 PM


On Frontier's webpage I quickly found their pet policy including the
weather requirements. Unfortunately it is not letting me copy and
paste here. It's listed under family and pets. The policy is very

Frontier did not kill your pets. If they would have accepted them for
transport they most certainly would have perished in the cargo hold.

I am sorry for your loss. I know how important fur kids are in our
lives. You were in a bad situation that did not allow for the proper
planning for your pets. It's a shame that you didn't have the
foresight to contact the rat rescue group prior to your move.

I hope that you find new rats to keep you company. They can never
replace the ones that are now gone, but in this case the airline is
not to blame for their demise.


Fully informed by Skip M. Mon December 29, 2008 @ 2:57 PM

According to your post. (paragraph 5) by Just Plain Harleycat Mon December 29, 2008 @ 3:35 PM

HarleyCat Folowup by Skip M. Tue December 30, 2008 @ 12:08 PM

Then I still don't understand.. by Ms. Harleycat Tue December 30, 2008 @ 3:32 PM

Frontier has no control over the weather by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Wed December 31, 2008 @ 4:19 PM

by Bill R. Posted Sun December 28, 2008 @ 12:44 PM

Hey Skip,

You might want to ask PFB to remove your personal information from the
public letter.



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