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Refusing to help Disabled, Blind Elderly Lady At Costco

Posted Wed November 1, 2006 12:00 pm, by T C. written to Costco Companies, Inc.

Write a Letter to this Company


Today I went to my local Costco. Most likely the very last time I will step foot in Costco. I would rather drive to the next town to Sam's Club than to step foot in that store EVER again; even though it is only around the corner from me.

I am a male caregiver to an elderly, disabled and blind lady. She had to use the restroom, and like children, elderly people don't have the ability to hold it.

I've been with this lady for 10 years. In those 10 years, she has needed to use the restroom only a handful of times. The most often occasions have all been within the past couple years. Target, Frye's, and grocery stores. Only Walmart said no. But, that is because they had family restrooms. Otherwise they would have, im sure. Which was just as helpful. However, Costco employees REFUSED to walk her from her wheelchair to the restroom and back to the wheelchair. She didnt need any other assistance. Just to make sure she did not fall on the way in.

There's nothing Costco can do, really, except to apologize. I'm debating whether to cancel my membership, after 6-7 years, and, I'll be looking for legal recourses, to sanction Costco for breaking the law, by not assisting disabled customers.

I am writing this via Planetfeedback, a website that shares letters for the entire world to see. I have stopped sharing these letters publicly; however, because I find this to be so greivous, I will. I want everyone know how Costco is unwillingy to help disabled people--- despite it being state, if not federal law to assist the disabled.

SHAME on Costco!


Reply



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by Hashim Steinowicz Posted Thu November 23, 2006 @ 11:29 PM

WOW, is all I can say

"I've been with this lady for 10 years. In those 10 years, she has
needed to use the restroom only a handful of times""

She must have one hell of a bladder.

On top of that, you are a loser scam artist trying to get strangers to
take your friend or employer, whaterver, to the bathroom.


Reply
by Cubjunkie Posted Thu November 16, 2006 @ 4:00 PM

It's usually best for a man who needs help to have a male caregiver
and vice versa just for this reason.

TC just didn't want to do the dirty work and expected untrained
employees to do such.

A little research done by people my Dad knows has told him this man
refused an offer by an employee to clear the restroom for a few
minutes so he could take her in or to go in and use the employee
restroom.

TC is paid good money to take care of the woman and it includes this
type of care helping in the bathroom. TC didn't want to do it.
Simple as that.

The people at Costco are paid to ring registers, help customers with
product not doo doo.

It's also a health issue without proper gloves and such to take care
of this business.

Reply


Good for your dad. I'm glad he took care of this. by Tina N Thu November 16, 2006 @ 6:13 PM


Right. by Brennie Sun November 26, 2006 @ 2:29 PM

A few calls by Cubjunkie Mon November 27, 2006 @ 3:35 AM
by Cubjunkie Posted Thu November 16, 2006 @ 3:56 PM

And this will be taken care of. TC still got his apology but it will
be made sure the manager etc will not get reprimanded and will be
apologized to for anything they suffered.

Upper ups at Costco know this was probably a scam.

Reply

by Cubjunkie Posted Wed November 15, 2006 @ 12:58 AM

This guy was probably trying to get them to help her and claim a fall
and sue for a lot of money.

There have been some incidents here like that.

Reply

reply to Cubjunkie by Batman Wed November 15, 2006 @ 12:45 PM


We all got a clue... by Tina N Wed November 15, 2006 @ 11:17 PM

you were paid by Cubjunkie Thu November 16, 2006 @ 3:54 PM

by donno Posted Sat November 11, 2006 @ 11:47 AM

I replied to this already, but I see it still in the top 20 and this
paragraph jumped out at me.

Exatly what state statute covers this (eg 23.1.6, 18.9.4, etc)? If
you can supply this information, perhaps they can be held accountable
for more than an apology. As things stand, whether they were right or
wrong, what you said is true: all they can do is apologize.

Reply

by Nayda Badillo Posted Fri November 10, 2006 @ 10:42 AM

I did not know that they had "potty patrol personnel" in Cosco!!

My mother is 74 years old and on coumadin. You can not tell she is on
coumadin, by just looking at her. Dermal-epidermal separation occurs
more readily in elderly skin, and elderly skin is more likely to tear
or blister. Adding the coumadin, it could make for a serious serious
situation if someone were to "man-handle" her inappropriately!

Cosco's (or any other store) employees must act prudently and
cautiously when dealing with potential law-suits. I would think that
you would have a better chance of winning a law suit if one of them
were to have helped you, and accidently hurt the lady you care for.

The general public knows basic First Aid and perhaps CPR. Transfers
and transports are usually left for those qualified to do so (ie, EMT,
paramedics, caregivers, nurses, doctors, etc!) To do so, without the
knowledge, could be very very dangerous! I would not like that burden
thrust upon me! I would love to help, in most cases, but the fear of
hurting a person more than I would help stops me from helping.

I stand by the employees on this topic! They chose wisely not to help!
I'm sure their hearts went out for you but, they acted prudently, in
this case!

Reply


good point by Nay Mon November 13, 2006 @ 3:58 PM

by A A Posted Thu November 9, 2006 @ 11:18 PM

There is no state or federal law saying that a business must help
disabled or elderly people. Accessibility is the only thing required
and that is open to interpretation.
If there was a law all one would need to do is walk into the nearest
Costco (or any other store) and say, "I have a bad leg and am therefor
disabled. I need one of your employees to carry me around or push me
in a cart to do my shopping because I cannot walk on my own."
Costco owes you no apology. I would refuse to help any elderly person
from a wheel chair to the bathroom under any circumstances unless they
were related to me.
I like my money and the things I own, and even if nothing happened at
the time, six months later I could be sued by her or her family
because 'her hip suddenly got worse' and lose everything I own. Trust
me, Costco would fire me to wash their hands of the lawsuit, so I
would be out of a job too.
I am guessing that there is a wheel chair accessible stall in the
bathroom so why would she need help walking to the bathroom? If you
think there is any state or federal law saying a Costco employee MUST
help a wheel chair bound person off the chair and onto the toilet, you
might want to research REAL laws.

Reply

by nick l Posted Tue November 7, 2006 @ 1:36 AM

As others have already asked, why didn't YOU help the lady to the
restroom?

I'm pretty sure nobody would have batted an eye if they saw you were
assissting an elderly lady who has difficulty moving around.

Your average retail worker doesn't know the best way to assist an
elderly, disabled person with their mobility. Should the elderly
person person fall and break a hip or suffer some other debilitating
injury, the store is ultimately responsible and can face legal action.

Reply


~~sigh~~ I'm afraid we'll never know the answer. by Tina N Tue November 7, 2006 @ 1:01 PM

Reply To Tina by Batman Wed November 15, 2006 @ 12:57 PM


Then... by Harleycat Fri November 17, 2006 @ 10:41 AM


You haven't answered the question to ANYone. by Tina N Sat November 18, 2006 @ 9:10 AM

by P-Chan Posted Mon November 6, 2006 @ 6:40 PM

What is it this lady pays you for? Because I can tell you I don't
know of any Costco employees with that job description.

And I know a LOT of Costco employees.

SHAME on you. For not doing your job and placing this poor lady in
the position of having to ask a total stranger for assistance. I
certainly hope she can find a more reliable care-giver.

Reply

You bring up a very good point by S. Brown Mon November 6, 2006 @ 7:04 PM


The guy said.... by Tina Newman Mon November 6, 2006 @ 11:23 PM


He's not her paid caregiver, he's just a friend by RedheadWGlasses Tue November 7, 2006 @ 12:46 PM


I could be wrong by RedheadWGlasses Tue November 7, 2006 @ 12:48 PM


Yeah, he actually says by Tina N Tue November 7, 2006 @ 1:09 PM


Either way by tickytack Tue November 7, 2006 @ 2:17 PM


Yes. by calm Tue November 7, 2006 @ 8:55 PM


by natalie t Posted Mon November 6, 2006 @ 11:50 AM

Why didn't you just take her in the bathroom yourself, you being the
care giver should be responisble. I would have felt VERY uncomfortable
helping b/c what if something happened to her. I think that perhaps
the store should have cleared out the bathroom so you could take her
in.

Reply
by lovescats Posted Mon November 6, 2006 @ 1:27 AM

I help people whenever I can but in this case I am afraid I would
refuse. My sister in thinking she would help my wheelchair bound
mother to the bathroom actually cause my mom an injury because she did
not know the proper way to help her out of her chair.

My fear would be that I might hurt your patient because I would not
know how to handle her. I think many people would react that way.

One thing that disturbs me is that the manger you spoke to at Costco
said he would talk to the employees you named. Do you feel vindicated
knowing you got people in trouble? Will you feel happy if they lose
their jobs over this because you put Costco in a bad light? I wonder
just who is the uncaring person in this story.

Reply


I agree by tickytack Mon November 6, 2006 @ 8:37 AM

Me, too. by S. Brown Mon November 6, 2006 @ 3:11 PM


That's a good point by calm Tue November 7, 2006 @ 3:45 PM


Re: Refusing to help Disabled, Blind Elderly Lady by mary jo Mon November 6, 2006 @ 1:06 AM


You're right about the gloves. by TheNewMrsDragonflygrrl Mon November 6, 2006 @ 10:26 AM


That Reminds Me by Harleycat Mon November 6, 2006 @ 3:20 PM
by emt_c Posted Thu November 9, 2006 @ 5:56 PM

Getting some nitrile gloves. I think they are stronger than latex,
and, they don't tear up your skin. ;) we use them on the ambulance
all the time!

Reply

by mary jo Posted Fri November 10, 2006 @ 11:07 AM

Do you know if those disposble gowns or whatever they are that they
use in the ER (like you see on ER or Gray's Anatomy or whatever) are
available to the public?

The reason I ask is because this week I had to deal with a LOT of
crap. Literally. And I am worried that it might get on my clothes
without me knowing and I might bring it home to my son. I want the
disposable gowns and I was goggles and I want elbow length gloves!
LOL!

Do you know if just anyone can get those gowns?

Reply

Gowns.. by KateM Tue November 21, 2006 @ 12:30 AM

by jessica smith Posted Sun November 5, 2006 @ 9:11 PM

I think that maybe as a healthcare worker, you might forget that
untrained people don't see it as simply assisting someone from
wheelchair to bathroom. If your client started to fall, you would
know how to help her without hurting yourself. A Costco employee
probably wouldn't know how to do this. And if she did fall, the store
and employee would be open to liablity.

Reply


Also... by Tina Newman Sun November 5, 2006 @ 9:31 PM

by donno Posted Sun November 5, 2006 @ 12:10 PM

I read half the responses (lots) and I didn't see this - what about
the responsibility the employee would be taking on? What if the
elderly lady falls and gets injured while the untrained employee is
attempting to help her into the bathroom?

My brother and I took care of my elderly mother for 5 years (she died
a few days ago), attending to all her personal needs. If we were
somewhere and the same situation came up, I would not expect someone
to jump in and attempt to assist my mother, whom they are unfamiliar
with, in a transfer. Yes, this situation could have been simply a
case of someone not wanting to get involved with potty duties (which I
completely understand ALSO), but in my mind the larger issue is one of
taking responsibility for safe transport. My mom fell on 4 or 5
occasions. Once was in my care. I felt terrible and thought "A
trained professional would not have let that happen." You don't want
to learn this lesson the hard way.

Reply


OMG Donno - I am SO SORRY by MA Loper Mon November 6, 2006 @ 9:40 AM


Donno... by Tina Newman Mon November 6, 2006 @ 10:30 AM


Donno by Gino Version 1.2 Mon November 6, 2006 @ 9:20 PM


Thank you for your thoughts by donno Tue November 7, 2006 @ 10:55 PM
by Summer Posted Sat November 4, 2006 @ 3:57 PM

I helped. Is that so bad? If I am ever in that situation, I would hope
that somebody would help. I am not judging you personally, however,
some of the attitudes here (not saying yours) are just not
compassionate.

Sorry to have offended anybody. I just feel for people who cannot do
for themselves. And I would feel honored to help them...maybe has
something to do with God's Karma.

Reply

No - - it's not so bad by S. Brown Sat November 4, 2006 @ 5:07 PM

Thank You! by Summer Sat November 4, 2006 @ 5:15 PM


No, it's not bad, in fact it's quite good... by Tina Newman Sun November 5, 2006 @ 12:41 AM

Reply to Summer by Batman Wed November 15, 2006 @ 12:56 PM

by S. Brown Posted Sat November 4, 2006 @ 1:47 PM

I'm glad you received a response from Costco and seem satisfied that
they allegedly said you were right and their employee was wrong.

Prior to their apology you stated that you would be "looking for legal
recourses, to santion Costco for breaking the law, by not assisting
disabled customers". I still have issues with this statement as thus
far no one (including you) has provided proof that a law exists
stating that retail employees (aka, total strangers) are required to
provide assistance to disabled customers to use the bathroom. You
stated that all this woman needed was someone to help her "walk from
her wheelchair to the restroom and back to the wheelchair. She didn't
need any other assistance." Common sense indicates that she most
likely required more assistance that you describe in view of the fact
that you state she is blind - - once she was in the bathroom, how was
she going to get into the stall, locate the seat protectors, toilet
paper, etc. and then get to the sink to wash her hands?

From my point of view - - unless it is a law (state, federal or
otherwise) that retail employees (or anyone else) must assist a
complete stranger to use the bathroom then I think it is asking too
much. If they want to help then that is their choice - - but I don't
think that they should be required to do so.

Speaking of laws - - free speech is alive and well in America and I'm
entitled to my opinion just as much as you are entitled to your's.

Reply


And No one is entitled to ask... by Tina Newman Sat November 4, 2006 @ 1:55 PM

Cold, Uncaring Attitudes by Summer Sat November 4, 2006 @ 2:51 PM


You Have No Right by Harleycat Sat November 4, 2006 @ 3:36 PM

reply To HarleyCat by Batman Wed November 15, 2006 @ 1:14 PM

No I wouldn't by S. Brown Sat November 4, 2006 @ 3:55 PM

My answer ended up somewhere else by Summer Sat November 4, 2006 @ 4:00 PM

No Worries by S. Brown Sat November 4, 2006 @ 4:19 PM

Thank You-Again I Apologize by Summer Sat November 4, 2006 @ 4:57 PM


We are forgiving by Harleycat Sat November 4, 2006 @ 5:30 PM

I Am Sorry Harley Cat-Forgive Me by Summer Sat November 4, 2006 @ 5:36 PM


No Problem by Harleycat Sun November 5, 2006 @ 9:06 AM

Reply to Summer by Batman Wed November 15, 2006 @ 1:08 PM


Who are you to tell me that I am wrong? by Tina Newman Sun November 5, 2006 @ 12:31 AM


I wish I had seen your apologies, Summer... by Tina Newman Sun November 5, 2006 @ 12:37 AM


No problem Tina-I tend to get passionate by littlyte Sun November 5, 2006 @ 3:19 PM


What happened to my name?! by littlyte Sun November 5, 2006 @ 3:23 PM


LOL... by Tina Newman Sun November 5, 2006 @ 3:56 PM


LOL! Yeah, It's Gone!!! by littlyte Sun November 5, 2006 @ 4:01 PM


And I thank you... by Tina Newman Sun November 5, 2006 @ 7:13 PM
by Prefect Zachary Posted Sat November 4, 2006 @ 1:20 PM

They should probably have a family washroom for he so that you can
help her there if they don't want to.

Reply

by Tina Newman Posted Sat November 4, 2006 @ 11:56 AM

And work in retail. I do not WANT to help people in the toilet. I
did not want to change diapers, but they were my kids, so I did what I
had to do. I have never changed any diapers but those of my own kids.

I would help a family member, but not some complete stranger. Call me
uncaring, I don't care what you call me. I WILL NOT help a complete
stranger with using the toilet, esp. when there is a caregiver in
attendance.
Now, if you have a flat tire, I will stop and either call for help, or
try to help you myself.
If you collapse and need CPR, I'm your gal, but I am NOT the one to
ask for potty help.
I'd tell my boss to go screw himself if he tried to order me to help
someone with their toilet.

Reply

Completely Agree by S. Brown Sat November 4, 2006 @ 2:31 PM


Excellent Response by Harleycat Sat November 4, 2006 @ 3:49 PM

by Batman Posted Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:23 PM

I just received a call from that particular Costco's store manager,
who received word of this email from corporate.

To EVERYONE who said "How dare I" expect Costco to assist, the store
manager took responsibility and was genuinely upset over this
situation. To quote him, "That is NOT how we do business". He was
extremely appalled by their actions. He promised me those who were
involved, and, yes, I named the culprits, would be in his office to
give account for the situation, before the day is over.

Apparently I AM NOT out of line to request assistance afterall.

Oh, and, btw, I did ask the manager if it was state law; he honestly
did not know. I can accept that. I even accept his sincerest
apologies. He did assure me that if such a situation ever comes up
again, that wont happen.

To all of you who have responded, understanding the frustration, and
the situation, thank you. You are very caring people. It shows.

To all of you who simply disagreed, thank you for attempting to share
an opposite point of view. While I disagree, and, apparently Costco
Corporate and the store manager did disagree with you.

To those of you who disagreed, and were rude, well, I have nothing to
say to you, other than, obviously Costco Corporate disagrees with your
disposition.

Thanks to Planetfeedback, because of them, it is possible to get heard
by upper management, and when things do go wrong, they can be fixed.
In this case, there was an obvious lack of training, and now,
employees will be made aware of such situations, and how to handle
them.


Reply


They probably DO disagree with you by tickytack Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:36 PM


But if they dont admit it by Rock Star Amanda Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:40 PM


Concur with Ms. TT by snurli Fri November 3, 2006 @ 4:42 PM

Reply to Snurli by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 6:14 PM


GREAT NEWS!!! by Rock Star Amanda Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:40 PM


On another note by Rock Star Amanda Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:48 PM

Reply to RockStar by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:51 PM


A Little Confused by Harleycat Fri November 3, 2006 @ 3:03 PM

Reply To Harleycat by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 5:56 PM


It's not law... by Tina Newman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 8:37 PM


Agree with you! by Harleycat Sat November 4, 2006 @ 8:01 AM


Again by Harleycat Sat November 4, 2006 @ 8:10 AM


Great News for you!! Happy PFB helped in some way to get this to happen. by Gino Version 1.2 Fri November 3, 2006 @ 3:12 PM


Batman by `~`Leanne`~` Fri November 3, 2006 @ 5:21 PM

Reply To LeAnne by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 6:36 PM


Batman by `~`Leanne`~` Fri November 3, 2006 @ 9:10 PM

Leanne by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 11:26 PM

Reply to Gino by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 6:07 PM


Actually, I do know what disabled people go through... by Gino Version 1.2 Fri November 3, 2006 @ 7:40 PM

Gino by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 11:36 PM

by RedheadWGlasses Posted Fri November 3, 2006 @ 1:26 PM

...I love that a little old, blind mobility-impaired lady is going out
shopping at Costco! I mean, wouldn't it be SO easy to give up on
life, stay home, get someone else to run your errands? What takes a
friend 90 minutes could take this lady twice as long by insisting on
coming along.

I don't care if at 90 I'm hunched over and pushing one of those
walkers with tennis balls on the bottom of the "feet": I wanna be out
there in the world whenever possible!

Reply

Reply to RHWG by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:04 PM


If you need someone to go w/you... by Daniela E Fri November 3, 2006 @ 10:37 PM


I love seeing... by Tina Newman Sat November 4, 2006 @ 11:59 AM

by Harleycat Posted Fri November 3, 2006 @ 10:09 AM

Can you please cite the state and federal laws you are referring to?
I did a search and can find no state (CA) or federal law that requires
a retail business to assist a disabled person in the restroom. The
federal law, the Americans with Disabilities Act requires retail
businesses to make reasonable accommodations in providing access to
their facility for the disabled. So that would mean that the door to
the restroom be wide enough for a wheelchair as well as one stall
being handicapped accessible. It does not mean that they have to
provide an attendant to assist a handicapped person in using the
restroom.

I asked this before, why did you just ask them to "stand guard" at the
restroom while you assisted your charge. The fact that you were
standing in line at the Pharmacy is not an answer, get off the line.
It is your job, not theirs! Asking a total stranger to assist your
charge is just wrong in so many ways. First and foremost, they are
not trained to provide assistance. Secondly, many people, myself
included, are uncomfortable doing it. Lastly, it's a total stranger!
How do you know they won't intentionally hurt your charge in some
way?

I am disabled with a mobility disability. In January, I will be
having surgery which will make it even more difficult for me to get
around (for a while). I would never expect a retail employee to
assist me or even ask someone in my office. It's not their job and
may put someone in a very awkward position.

Reply


Thanks by snurli Fri November 3, 2006 @ 12:30 PM


Also... by Harleycat Fri November 3, 2006 @ 1:16 PM

by Starlight22203 Posted Fri November 3, 2006 @ 10:07 AM

I'm really curious why you didn't take her into the bathroom yourself?
I know the question has been asked but I don't recall you answering?

A woman's room is full of stalls. There is complete privacy and no
reason why you couldn't assist her. If anyone questions you, simply
state that you are helping a disabled woman. I don't know a single
woman who would object.

With that said... I have tossed this letter around for a few days
wondering what I would do if it were me. I would not have assisted
this woman to the bathroom. Not because I would be afraid to be
sued... but because I could not live with myself if something did
happen. What if I assisted her, she fell and hit her head? I would
personally feel responsible if that happened. If she died from that
fall? Yep... I would feel like I killed her. That is not something I
wish to carry with me the rest of my life.

I'm sorry if that makes me a bad person in your eyes but I help people
every day. I help tie a child's shoe or cross a street. I help
someone reach something at the grocery store or move something out of
their way. I donate to good causes. I volunteer my time. Just
because I wouldn't do something as personal and involved as assisting
someone to the bathroom does not make me less of a person anymore than
it does the employees of Costco. The ADA's purpose is to protect
people with disabilites by requiring that public places make
accomodations for them. Accomodations does not mean they have to bend
over backwards for them. Do they have to make the building wheel
chair accessible? Yes. Do they have to assist them reach
something... I suppose they could (I'm not familiar with the specifics
of the act). But the employees don't have to do anything that could
jeopardize their own level of comfort.

So... with all that said, I'm glad to hear the you find such joy in
your position as her caretaker. After 10 years I would have thought
you would have worked towards receiving the proper qualifications so
you could continue to properly care for her as she gets older and
needs more complex attention.

Lastly, I am saddened to hear that you normally don't share your
letters because this one was very well written. If you truly believe
in your letter then it doesn't matter what others have to say about
it.

Reply

Reply To Starlight by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:30 PM


her name is Nichole by Rock Star Amanda Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:41 PM

And I heart you as well Amanda! by Starlight22203 Fri November 3, 2006 @ 3:29 PM


mmmmm by Rock Star Amanda Fri November 3, 2006 @ 4:43 PM

:( by Starlight22203 Fri November 3, 2006 @ 10:58 PM

Batman by Starlight22203 Fri November 3, 2006 @ 3:29 PM

by eydie Posted Fri November 3, 2006 @ 8:34 AM

I recently became a caregiver and i have some questions. One, if she
is incontinent, why is she not wearing an adult diaper? Two, why do
you believe it is the job of UNTRAINED individuals to assist this
woman to the bathroom? Since they are not trained in the proper way
to guide her what happens if she falls anyway? What happens if she
pulls the employee down? What happens if the employee has a hidden
health problem that makes it a bad idea for them to do this? What you
are asking is a lawsuit waiting to happen. If you aren't able to take
care of her when she's out then she has no business being out. Costco
employees are not responsible for being caregivers. I'm sure it's not
in their job description and could, indeed, get them into legal
trouble should something go wrong.

Reply


Eydie by Rock Star Amanda Fri November 3, 2006 @ 11:00 AM

we don't know what exactly was said by Cass Fri November 3, 2006 @ 12:30 PM


he doesn't say they said that by eydie Sat November 4, 2006 @ 8:44 AM

by Andrea Ritter Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 10:43 PM

I used to work as a bank teller. And one day this man and his ederly
mother came in to open an account. He was I would say in his late
60's, and she was probably in her 80's. She was walking with
crutches. Her son was not helping her at all when they walked in. My
manager took them in her office, and after they opened the account,
the son asked if my manager would mind if his mom used our bathroom.
Usually, we do not let the public use our bathroom for security
reasons, but being that she was ederly, and was disabled, my manager
said she could use the restroom. The son asked my manager if she
wouldn't mind helping his mom. And she said, no she wouldn't mind
walking her to the restroom. The son then said, "No, I don't think
you understand, she needs help in the restroom." My manager said,
"I'll show you where the restroom is, and YOU can help her in there."

Reply

Reply to Andrea by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:35 PM


by Gino Version 1.2 Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 6:35 PM

Please don't take this the wrong way. If a building is in compliance
with whatever the law says they need to fulfill the requirements for
Certificates of Occupancy and Adherence to the (overly misinterpreted)
Citizens With Disabilities Act. I'm taking it that you are a
professional, PAID caregiver for this elderly Blind Lady. It's your
responsibility, male or female, that she is cared for.
So before you "Shame on Costo", it might be prudent you to call Sam's
Club before going. I seriously doubt they have licensed caretakers or
guide dogs or walkers waiting around to care for the customers.

Many DO provide motorized carts as a courtesy and even that may be
pushing the envelope.

This is a bit much to expect from any business.

But then I'm guessing there IS no law that states any store needs to
have licensed caretakers on the payroll. And I seriously doubt any
business can be "sanctioned" for not doing what you are responsible
for.


Reply

Excellent Points by S. Brown Thu November 2, 2006 @ 7:16 PM


So very true... by Gino Version 1.2 Thu November 2, 2006 @ 8:03 PM

by Sava Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 5:29 PM

So this lady really needed that much help getting into the restroom,
and she has started needing to use the bathroom more frequently over
the past couple of years - and let's not forget that "like children,
elderly people don't have the ability to hold it" (a broad
generalization if ever I heard one, considering both my 3-year-old
daughter and my 86-year-old grandmother can both "hold it" just fine
if need be)... Seems to me that this elderly woman should have been
wearing Depends for an outing like this with a ale caregiver. I agree
with previous posters - there is NO reason why a store employee should
be obligated to help this woman! Think about it: as a caregiver,
that's YOUR job, and if being male prohibits you from accompanying
your client into the restroom, and she's definitely going to need help
in there...then maybe you're not the right person (or at least not the
right gender) for the job!

I know if I was making a pittance as a Costco employee, I would
certainly resent an elderly caregiver (who probably makes decent
money, because I know here in PA they can get at least twice the
hourly wage of a Costco worker) demanding my help in getting his
charge to the bathroom!

Reply


How Closeminded by Casmly Fri November 3, 2006 @ 3:21 PM


Closeminded? by Sava Fri November 3, 2006 @ 4:30 PM

Response to Sava by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 6:24 PM


And what about your remarks? by Sava Sat November 4, 2006 @ 10:08 AM
by S. Brown Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 3:11 PM

You claim that "she didn't need any other assistance" - - only someone
"to walk her from her wheelchair to the restroom and back to the
wheelchair" and this request was "Just to make sure she didn't not
fall on the way in".

If she is unable to walk from the door to the bathroom stall without
assistance, then it stands to reason that she would also require
further assistance within the bathroom itself and I don't believe that
it is fair to ask a perfect stranger to help unless they volunteer.

I don't believe that the Americans with Disabilities Act requires
strangers to help people use bathroom facilities. Furthermore, if a
Costco employee did agree to help her walk to the bathroom and back,
and she fell and was injured, then Costco would most likely be liable
for the injury.

So the bottom line is not that "Costco is unwillingy to help disabled
people" - - their employees are not required to assist their customers
use the bathroom facilities and no - - that is not against the law.

Reply


by vc Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:28 PM

I think your situation was unfortunate, but to expect someone making
minimum wage or little more to help a disabled customer use the
restroom is asking too much.

I've been in the position of having to assist people with disabilities
and most of the time it wasn't an issue. But I drew the line at
anything involving them being in any state of undress. I wasn't
comfortable with it, but that doesn't make me a bad person.

Reply


Re: Refusing to help Disabled, Blind Elderly Lady by Giselle Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:56 PM


No by vc Thu November 2, 2006 @ 1:18 PM


Also by vc Thu November 2, 2006 @ 1:32 PM


The very good question was posed... by Tina Newman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 8:25 AM

Exactly! by Dulcinea Sat November 4, 2006 @ 8:53 PM

by Peanut's Mom Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:10 PM

I wonder what this OP would have written if the employee DID assist
the lady into the restroom and while the employee was assisting her,
God forbid, she slipped and broke her hip.
I used to work in a convalescent hospital. I was in charge of the
kitchen, and I was not licensed to care for patients. I was told (on
many occasions by different people) that if I saw someone falling I
was NOT to touch them because I was not trained how to appropriately
assist and the person's family would have grounds for a lawsuit. I
don't know if they were saying this to scare me, but I do remember
that in that facility (which was in CA btw) you were not allowed to
touch one of the residents unless you were licensed, certified, or
otherwise permitted.

Reply


This would be a different standard of care by LadyMac Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:23 PM
by Applejacker Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:02 PM

"..their concerns with companies that seem to not give a (fill in your
own words here)..." That's MY issue with your letter. You are
attacking an entire company, because one person apparently turned you
down for whatever reason. In that same company I could find a hundred
thousand employees that would have been glad to help. My peave is when
a writer attacks an entire company rather than point out a person that
may need some retraining or a different carreer. I sense an anger at
the world itself over your situation, reflected by your attacking a
broad spectrum of people, rather than the actual culprit.
You see, I myself, have dutifully taken care of MY disable mother for
the last 20 years until she finally passed recently. 99.99% of every
persons at Costco, or anywhere else, were very helpful. As for the one
that wasn't I reported it to their manager, and it was resolved.

Reply

Reply to AppleJacker by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:19 PM

Thanks for your more detailed response by Applejacker Fri November 3, 2006 @ 1:00 AM

Youre welcome by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:49 PM


by Tina Newman Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 11:53 AM

It is not state OR federal law that I have to help a complete stranger
do anything. The building must be accessible, but the employees do
NOT have to assume the liability of caring for the person. Ever.
I would have offered to clear the bathroom, so YOU could go in with
her, and I would have kept other women out, until you came out, but I
would not have taken her in to the bathroom.
It is not LAW to assist anyone, hun, no state can require me to take
on any risk.
What if someone had helped her and she had fallen? The store would be
liable and the employee, personally, would be liable. Nope, I'm not
gonna help someone and put my job and my life at risk of a lawsuit.

Reply


Re: Refusing to help Disabled, Blind Elderly Lady by Giselle Thu November 2, 2006 @ 1:00 PM

reply to Giselle by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 8:22 PM


We're not advesarial. by vc Thu November 2, 2006 @ 10:05 PM

Reply to VC by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 10:34 PM


That would be the Americans with Disabilities Act by calm Thu November 2, 2006 @ 10:31 PM


Where does he say no one offered by Tina Newman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 8:17 AM

Reply to Tina by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:37 PM


I know the American's with Disabilities Act... by Tina Newman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 8:20 AM

And the truth we suspected all along finally comes out by S. Brown Wed November 15, 2006 @ 4:53 PM
by GiveMePeace Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 11:42 AM

I work in retail and I wouldn't assist a complete stranger in the way
described in this letter. Not in this day and age, no way. One slip
is all it would take for a lawsuit to be filed and I will not set
myself up in such a way. I can't fault any employee for refusing to
guide a blind person anywhere, at any time.

Now I do think it was wrong if the employee refused to hold the door
or go into the restroom and clear the way for the handicapped person
and aide to enter with a minimum of trouble. I'm sure that there is
no rule that a male aide cannot assist a female handicapped person in
a public restroom, its not like the aide is leering at others and
besides there isn't anything to see, all the stalls are private.
Anyone who has a problem with someone of the opposite sex assisting a
person who needs it has more issues than National Geographic.


Reply


Good Samaritan Laws by MA Loper Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:35 PM


I **heart** you MA by LadyMac Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:46 PM


Thanks! by MA Loper Thu November 2, 2006 @ 1:09 PM

Reply to MALoper by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 8:42 PM


The short answer is by MA Loper Fri November 3, 2006 @ 8:57 AM

by Rock Star Amanda Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 11:18 AM

I would ahve helped, stranger or not. I am a 21 year old living in a
retirement community (They let younger people live o nthe 3rd floor bc
the old ppl cant walk the steps well). It never fails 4 out of 10
times as I am walking up the stairs, I see someone who needs help
carrying in groceries, or getting bags up stairs. I feel like if I
hope for there to be kindness when i am old and need it, I need to
show that kindness now. I have never been asked to help a person walk
to a stall, but I can't say I'd ever refuse

Reply


It's possible by `~`Leanne`~` Thu November 2, 2006 @ 11:29 AM


It's also possible... by Tina Newman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 11:55 AM


i guess thats where by Rock Star Amanda Thu November 2, 2006 @ 11:58 AM


Amanda by LadyMac Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:09 PM


I try by Rock Star Amanda Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:16 PM


Amanda by LadyMac Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:52 PM


not many people by Rock Star Amanda Thu November 2, 2006 @ 1:01 PM

Rock Star Amanda by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:58 PM


Thanks Batman by Rock Star Amanda Fri November 3, 2006 @ 10:48 AM


Lawsuits? by Jeffrey Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:17 PM


Arguable Jeffrey by LadyMac Thu November 2, 2006 @ 12:30 PM

Reply to Jeffery by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 10:16 PM

Reply to Amanda by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:53 PM


Then you are either... by Tina Newman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 8:47 AM


Dont you DARE look down on me by Rock Star Amanda Fri November 3, 2006 @ 10:57 AM


I would NEVER look down on you! by Tina Newman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 8:32 PM


And i guess it starts again by Rock Star Amanda Sat November 4, 2006 @ 8:36 AM


YOU CAN'T BE SUED FOR THAT, TINA!!! by MA Loper Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:22 PM


thanks again MA by Rock Star Amanda Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:39 PM


You're not going to tell me... by Tina Newman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 9:04 PM


Ask LadyMac if you don't believe me. by MA Loper Sat November 4, 2006 @ 4:05 PM

reply to Tina by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:50 PM

Response to Leanne by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:42 PM


Batman by `~`Leanne`~` Fri November 3, 2006 @ 1:59 AM

Leanne by Batman Fri November 3, 2006 @ 11:44 PM

Reply to Rock Star Amanda by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:39 PM


Thanks again :) by Rock Star Amanda Fri November 3, 2006 @ 10:50 AM


by Casmly Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 11:06 AM

Although I don't believe that you have a case, I certainly believe
that Cosco should have been more accomodating. I know that if I had
been the employee I would certainly have led this lady into the
restroom. I'm just that kind of person. If I felt uncomfortable
however, there is no reason why I couldn't suggest that I go in and
clear out the restroom of other patrons before calling you to come in
and help this woman. Either that or the employee could have at least
accompanyed you into the restroom so that other patrons didn't assume
the worst about a man accompanying an elderly woman into the
restroom.

I can certainly see your annoyance. Good for you for caring for this
lady for so long!

Reply

Reply to Casmly by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 10:41 PM

by MA Loper Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:05 AM

I just get the feeling theres a few detailed points that got left
out.

I worked with MRDD adults in a group home while in college and we were
required to work with either male or female residents. We tried to
ensure that each resident was paired up to an appropriate caregiver
when we were out (male/male or female/female) but sometimes it was not
an option, so whoever was available was responsible.

So I guess my question is, if YOU are her caregiver, then why didn't
YOU take her to the restroom? The store refusing to allow you to
escort her MIGHT be grounds for discriminatory practices, but I can't
think of ONE law we ever were informed of that said the staff at a
restaurant or store was obligated to help out disabled patrons.

There is a very fine line between accomodating and this and I think IF
you could find an attorney to take your case, you'd have a tough
battle because it's a pretty grey area.

Why didn't you involve the store management immediately? Or was that
who refused to help? I know that isn't really time conscious when you
have someone who has to go and can't really hold it, but it would have
been better than the end result you got here.

I take my 9 year old in the women's restroom with me when we are out
together and no one has ever complained about it. I'm not about to
leave him alone while I use the restroom. I guess I don't see how
this is any different.

If it was me, I'd have just taken her in and told the staff to take a
flying leap. If the staff was bold enough to call the cops, the
police probably would have sided with you anyway and been done with
it.

Last but not least, did the poor woman get to use the bathroom or
what?

Reply


MA - excellent, as always! by Firebrat Tracy Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:43 AM


Have to wonder. . . by MA Loper Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:47 AM


I'm oneof them by Harleycat Thu November 2, 2006 @ 10:58 AM


Harley by `~`Leanne`~` Thu November 2, 2006 @ 11:26 AM


Don't blame you at all. . . by MA Loper Thu November 2, 2006 @ 1:36 PM

MA by p d Thu November 2, 2006 @ 2:00 PM


I'm not MA, but by LurkerNoMore Thu November 2, 2006 @ 10:20 PM


Thanks Lurker! (n/t) by MA Loper Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:24 PM

Reply to MA by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 11:41 PM


Right, but. . . by MA Loper Fri November 3, 2006 @ 2:17 PM

To MA by Batman Sat November 4, 2006 @ 12:01 AM

by calm Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:00 AM

It is Costco's responsibility under the law to make the restrooms
accessible to wheelchair users. It is also certainly the right thing
for them to do. It is probably also Costco's responsibility under the
law to allow the two of you to go into the same restroom so that you
can assist her. It is certainly the right thing for them to do.

It is not Costco's responsibility under federal law to provide
personal assistants to customers. I do not believe it is Costco's
responsibility under state law either, but as I do not live in
California I don't know for sure. You might find this web page
helpful: http://www.disabilityaccessinfo.ca.gov/lawsregs.htm I'm not
up for reading the full text of a bunch of laws on this one. In any
event, you don't know what the law says either. You're clearly just
making up a law to try to bully people into letting you have your
way.

People just making up laws to get what they want and to avoid their
responsibilities is one of the reasons that businesses and so forth
cite for not complying with the actual laws. It harms the rest of us
disabled people. I don't know whether this lady is the one making up
laws (and why isn't she writing her own letter? Many of us find it
very offensive when nondisabled "helpers" speak on our behalf) or
whether you are, but I don't appreciate it. The next time I go to a
Costco and find that they're not following ADAAG standards and I can't
get my wheelchair close enough to things I want to buy, or that they
refuse to communicate with someone who uses assistive technology to
express themself, or whatever, believe me: I will remember you.

It is definitely this lady's responsibility to either find a way to
not need to use public restrooms (I use adult diapers when I'm worried
about being able to hold my water for the whole time I'm out) or to
ensure that she has the appropriate assistance to use public
restrooms. That means that either she needs to have a woman with her
when she might need to use a public restroom, or you and she need to
be able to make it clear that you need to go into the same restroom
together. Going out unprepared and then demanding that the people who
happen to be around pitch in so that she doesn't have to face the
consequences of lack of planning doesn't count.

I hope everyone reading this thread will know what you've been doing
to undermine basic civil rights that many of us have fought hard for.

Reply


So very well said by LadyMac Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:27 AM


Thank you for saying that. by calm Thu November 2, 2006 @ 2:07 PM


by RedheadWGlasses Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 8:42 AM

Anyone who has a problem with a man helping a woman use the public
restroom should stay home. How would WE feel if we couldn't go out to
eat, out shopping, or to a movie because other women's silly fears
(gasp! He might HEAR YOU PEE! THE HORRORS!)?

To any and all women who have protested and objected to a man
assisting his female partner in the restroom: GROW UP. Get over
yourselves. Just go in your stall, drop trou, pee (or do something
else, although many women won't do the other thing if there's another
woman in the restroom), undrop trou, WASH YOUR HANDS for 30 seconds,
and get on with your life.

Consider yourself lucky that you can pee with no help.

Reply


Sorry, I should have been more clear by RedheadWGlasses Thu November 2, 2006 @ 8:45 AM

that is a good point, Red by Cass Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:02 AM


I agree with you Redhead! by Giselle Thu November 2, 2006 @ 1:02 PM
by Cass Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 8:30 AM

I agree with the other posters that it's not Costco's responsibility
to assist customers in using the bathrooms. I wonder if they're even
allowed to. What if the woman fell while an employee was leading her
in?

As her caregiver, it's your responsibility to make sure she has access
to the restroom. If you're taking her out, you should be sure that
there is a "family restroom" that you can accompany her into, or bring
along another female who can help her into the ladies room.

While I understand there are laws regarding accessibility for disabled
persons, I have never heard of a law that states employees of a
business are required to walk someone into the restroom. If you know
of such a law, you should include it in your letter.

Reply


I agree by tickytack Thu November 2, 2006 @ 8:49 AM

TICKY!!! by Cass Thu November 2, 2006 @ 8:59 AM


Thank you. (n/t) by tickytack Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:23 AM

by *Brenda* Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 7:11 AM

Can you not see how uncomfortable it may make someone to help a
stranger into the bathroom, wait for them to finish, then help them
out? Sorry, but I wouldn't do it either. I'd do it if I knew the
person but not a total stranger.

You look for your legal resources. Hey, people sue for everything
nowadays, why shouldn't you? (That was sarcasm, in case you didn't get
it).

Reply

by p d Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 1:38 AM

I highly doubt it's the law to assist disabled people.

I'd say they didn't do it (and I don't blame them for refusing)because
of the possibility of her falling while assisting her.

It's not up to employees to assist people in that way.

Reply

Reply to PD by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 3:02 AM


Personally by tickytack Thu November 2, 2006 @ 9:25 AM

I didn't mean that to sound cold. by p d Thu November 2, 2006 @ 1:56 PM

Reply to PD by Batman Sat November 4, 2006 @ 12:14 AM

What's so funny? by S. Brown Mon November 6, 2006 @ 6:15 PM
by Applejacker Posted Thu November 2, 2006 @ 1:32 AM

You have provided few, if any, specifics as to what exactly happened.
But "..I have stopped sharing these letters publicly.." seems to show
that you have a previously driven vendetta, rather than a specific
complaint.
"..sanction Costco for breaking the law, by not assisting disabled
customers.." I'm sorry but there is no such law.
"..Costco employees REFUSED to walk her.." Be specific. Names.
Locations. Date and time. Just WHO refused???

Reply

Respone to Applejacker by Batman Thu November 2, 2006 @ 3:13 AM

Again..WHO? by Applejacker Thu November 2, 2006 @ 11:59 AM




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