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I work at a Barnes and Noble store in the children's department.
Parents often leave their children unattended for long periods of time. Some of those children sit quietly and look at books, some play with Thomas the Train.
Others play chase, take the stickers out of books, knock things over, create havoc.
Occasionally, a child will wander off in search of his or her parents, and we'll announce a "Code Adam" - immediately, we'll block the exits, send workers into the restrooms, and every other employee will stop what they are doing and begin a search for the missing child.
We don't know what was going on with the child in question - Was his misbehaving, did he look lost and the employee was being helpful. I don't know.
I do know that I consider it part of my job to keep an eye on these kids while they're in here. If they're creating a ruckus, I reprimand them; if they are opening packages or taking stickers out of books, I make sure the parents pay for them; if they pull out piles of books, I politely say, "Do you remember where those go? Let's see if you can put them back."
Now, if I could just get the parents to quit dumping off their books and magazines in my section and leaving their coffee cups everywhere, I'd be happy.
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by RUKIDDING Posted Thu October 28, 2010 @ 3:05 AM
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Under the Juvenile Court Act, it’s child neglect to leave a minor under 14 years of age “without supervision for an unreasonable period of time without regard for the mental or physical health, safety, or welfare of that minor.”
Why is this such a difficult concept for you to grasp.
Does something drastic have to happen before you realize ther risk you are taking every time you do this.
I'll bet Borders has similar policy and if you make a habit of neglecting your child there they will politely as possible, tell you about it too.
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by RUKIDDING Posted Thu October 28, 2010 @ 2:40 AM
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It is NOT YOUR CHOICE. You put your child and that bookseller at risk and you DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO DO THAT.
Ignorance of the law does not excuse you from it. You should Thank that bookseller and APOLOGIZE. While your rant made you feel better for your embarrassment you adversely affected that bookseller and that store. And you should be ashamed. While your neglect resulted in lovely fodder for your stupid rant I assure you that bookseller was very upset by their ordeal and they do not get paid enough to cope with parents like you.
At the very least you should have asked that bookseller for permission, and given them the opportunity to decline. Just passing the supervision off on them without even asking is NOT making reasonable provision for his care.
Not even if you blog about it everyday for years.
You are still Wrong.
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by RUKIDDING Posted Thu October 28, 2010 @ 1:54 AM
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Child abuse and neglect are defined by Federal and State laws. The Federal Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA) provides minimum standards that States must incorporate in their statutory definitions of child abuse and neglect. The CAPTA definition of "child abuse and neglect," at a minimum, refers to:
"Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker, which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse, or exploitation, or an act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm"1
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by Tara P. Posted Mon September 21, 2009 @ 4:13 PM
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So you're ticked because she was concerned. Wow. just wow....
My advice? Get over it. There are freakies all over the places waiting to snag a kid for their own disgusting pleasure and a bookstore is a VERY easy target to do this.
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by redhatterb Posted Mon September 21, 2009 @ 12:15 AM
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8 years is too young to be let to wander alone in any store. Plus the upside to keeping the kid by your side is when you are ready to go, you don't have to go looking for him/her. I used to get really frustrated with my daughter because she always let her kids roam all over stores. I hate shopping when kids are running all over unsupervised. Even yet, with her kids being teenagers and nearly grown, when we go shopping together, the adults are always done first and then we have to have the kids paged and wait for them.
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by Shaggy Posted Sun September 20, 2009 @ 5:24 PM
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I am a retired probation officer who supervised child molestors, rapists, and the worst of child abusers in my judicial circuit. You have got to be out of your mind for letting your 8 year old child traverse that store alone. That is exactly what child molestors look for and many lurk in bookstore for that reason. you owe the Barnes and Nobles clerk a debt of gratitude for caring. Besides, she may have known a customer in the store was a sex offender and was not allowed to acknowledge that. i checked my local book stores religiously before I retired and when I found an offender in the store, I introduced them to the store management so they would know what obstacle they were up against.
Your child may be a customer of Barnes and Noble, but he was also protected by the Barnes and Noble staff!
Cudos to Barnes and Nobles' for their employee's action(s)!!!!!!
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by CarlaTee Posted Sat September 5, 2009 @ 9:14 PM
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I thought this rule was present in all stores, you know? Something unwritten, but everyone understands.
It's just dangerous to leave an 8 year old alone in the store and the employee was just concerned. Although I do think it would've been better if she didn't explain to you "loudly" so you wouldn't have been as embarrassed.
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by R.E.D Posted Tue September 1, 2009 @ 2:53 PM
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Almost all types of stores have a child policy. Many do have them posted but It has been my experience that most people don't pay attention to posted signs anyway. I see no fault from the B&B here, only fault from the parent.
Now your child may be responsible enough to shop on his own, your neighborhood may be super safe and nice, you may be the best parent in the world, and maybe nothing bad could have happened in that store. But the employees have no way of knowing any of that. They are paid to follow the rules not bend them "just because" Most places have the general rule of "Children under the age of 12 must be accompanied by an adult" and every one must follow it. The employees do not have time to baby sit everyone's children, nor should they have to, if you bring your child into a store be prepared to stay with him the WHOLE time, Even if you have to stand there waiting for him to pick out a book for 30 min. He is your child and there for you have a responsibility to watch him.
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by PepperElf Posted Mon August 10, 2009 @ 9:01 PM
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how long do letters stay on this 25 list?
oy
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....
by PepperElf Wed August 12, 2009 @ 11:09 PM
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by Batman Posted Wed July 8, 2009 @ 1:13 PM
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And as so many have stated, You would be the first in line to blame them had some jackass abducted your child. You would be there screaming that they didn't do enough to protect your child.
Sorry, you are dead wrong here.
I suspect you are more angry that there was a scene, and that people thought your child did something wrong. Nope. It was you. You left your 8 year old child unattended. Perhaps you would have preferred them havng a sign stating they would call the police for parents who left their minor children unattended?
They simply brought your child to what they believe was safety.
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by pat s. Posted Wed June 24, 2009 @ 4:15 PM
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Regardless of whether an 8 yr old is considered a "paying" customer - in this day and age, letting your son wander the store unescorted by his parents is not an acceptable practice to get into. I don't think B&B should be punished, I think they should be commended for doing what is right.
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by Alexandra1973 Posted Tue June 16, 2009 @ 7:54 PM
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They don't know if he's a "paying customer" or not. Apparently not, since he didn't buy anything.
I don't let my 7-year-old son out of sight.
Plus there are way too many parents who think that employees' job is to baby-sit, and too many who don't mind their children taking off and destroying stuff.
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by kayti2k Posted Mon May 18, 2009 @ 9:29 AM
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Wow! Tons of posts... I just wanted to say that whether or not B&N wanted to protect the child I'm sure they want to protect the store. If a child really was abducted there's a risk a parent might want to sue them.
It's up to you whether or not you want to leave a child unsupervised... and obviously you can choose not to shop there any more if you feel their actions were inappropraite. But I believe the company has a right to make rules that limit their risk.
For example, my family is going tubing on a river this weekend. We'll have to sign waivers that we won't sue the company if we drown. B&N doesn't make you sign a waiver that you can't sue them if your child gets abducted in the store (of course not, imagine how much work that wuld be), but they can try to make sure it doesn't happen by encouraging parents to stay with their kids. It's just common sense, like asking customers at Home Depot not to climb on ladders.
I also think it's important to remember that people whose children get abducted aren't always "bad" parents. I wouldn't personally let an 8-year-old go off without at least an older sibling accompanying him or her. But that doesn't mean that my vigilance will prevent something terrible from happening to my kids. Nor does it mean that if you truly are a negligent parent that something's automatically going to happen to your children.
While I like to think a little extra care makes the difference, I think all this discussion could have the unintended consequence of demonizing people whose children have been victimized (when there was nothing they could have done to prevent it).
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I agree
by ♫Venice♫ Mon May 18, 2009 @ 6:02 PM
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by Ben G. Posted Fri May 8, 2009 @ 2:03 PM
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made and I confused the two.
"My son can also take FOREVER to pick out a book. Sports or famous
people in history? Martin Luther King or Juan Ponce De Leon? The last
time that I stood their waiting for him to pick out a book, I was
ready to strangle him by the end of it. "
This says it all for me right here. regardless of the intentions of the employee asking that he remain by your side.
You were upset when the employee not only followed the policy (which is what people are paid by employers to do), but that you had to be with him for the above stated reason.
I would love input on this.
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by Cindy Candy Posted Wed May 6, 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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At 8 years old your son is far too young to be shopping by himself. There are thousands of child sexual predators out there just waiting for a parent like you to not realize their presence. Please consider the safety of your son. I've even heard on the news of children being raped in public bathrooms. This is a scary world, and your son needs your protection.
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*nods*
by PepperElf Wed May 6, 2009 @ 3:23 PM
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8 years old is too young to be left unsupervised in a store by a parent. You stated you went your own direction, which is essentially leaving him alone.
Had you left him alone in your house at that age alone, you would run this risk of being in trouble with authorities.
I was watching ET for some odd reason a few weeks ago, and the mother left the little blond haired girl home alone. I didnt think of anything of it when I saw it when it came out, but when I saw it, I was like, man you do that now, and you are in trouble!
Also the brother was dressed up like a "terrorist" for his halloween costume.
Point being, times have changed, and we cannot leave children alone, unsupervised. Bookstores and libraries are common place for predators that prey on children.
Good Day
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o.o
by PepperElf Sun May 3, 2009 @ 9:30 AM
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0.o
by PepperElf Sun May 3, 2009 @ 5:32 PM
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...
by PepperElf Sun May 3, 2009 @ 5:55 PM
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...
by PepperElf Mon May 4, 2009 @ 3:40 PM
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?
by PepperElf Mon May 4, 2009 @ 5:09 PM
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o.o
by PepperElf Mon May 4, 2009 @ 7:12 PM
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Libraries
by ♫Venice♫ Tue May 5, 2009 @ 12:52 AM
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by Nate! Posted Fri May 1, 2009 @ 9:30 AM
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I have stayed out of the discussion here for the most part, but after reading all of the comments, I have come to a conclusion.
Even though there is a loose policy in place, I think that the employee was possibly combining it with her own personal beleif. She has an opinion, and maybe she has a strong opinion on this such as the commenters here like Venice and Teresa to name a few. She could have shared their fears, and thought it was in the best interest of Sio's son to not be in the store alone.
Maybe the store had trouble recently with unaccompanied children being disruptive or stealing, so the management instructed employees to crack down on all kids by themselves, causing trouble or not, and enforce the policy mentioned by corporate in the email mentioned below.
And finally, everybody who is calling out all the what-ifs, you most likely have never been to this bookstore, or the surrounding community. And you don't know Sio's son. You simply cannot comprehend all of factors, therefore you cannot comprehend the magnitude of the safety risk involved.
First, I think Sio is a fine mother. If she feel comfortable leaving her son for a few minutes while she goes to get drinks, then it most likely is fine. If the store were shady or were the neighborhood, or even if she felt somewhat uneasy about it at all, then I bet she would stay with her son. That is instinct. And I highly doubt she would simply ignore it.
But even in a safe neighborhood, and pedophile can swoop down and kill him, right? Yes, this is a chance, and the odds are very low. It could very well happen, yes it could. But like I said, the odds are very low. We hear of these incidents now and then, and of the many children left alone for a few minutes, nothing ever happens. Like Sio's philosophy, why should the possibility of what could happen put a damper on your activities? Yes, there is a risk involved here. Yes, something bad could happen. But the odds of it happening are so slim. And she understands this risk. This leads me to my next point.
Nobody here has ever met Sio's son except for Sio. Only she knows how mature she is. This simply cannot be sufficiently conveyed through comments or the original letter. If her son was not mature enough to handle himself, this would lead back to point one. She would feel an instinctual level of uneasyness. If her son is mature enough to comprehend the fact of life that pedophiles and murders exist, along with the fact that he should never talk to or go with anybody, no matter the circumstances or how convinving they seem, then I think he will be safe. The person preying on him relies on the naievety of a young child. If Sio's son can comprehend that these people exist, and the risks involved with speaking with any stranger, then I think he can be safe. And if taken by force, surely he could kick and scream and attack back and casue a scene.
Based on these points and how they lead to one another, and since one simply cannot know all of the circumstances in this situation, then it leads me to beleive that leaving her son for a few minutes is generally safe. Sure, he could be harmed at any moment. But the odds and his maturity are in Sio's son's favor. So if B&N is going to prohibit it, and if this is the way Sio would like to live her life and parent, the GOOD FOR HER for speaking with her wallet and switching to Borders.
Good Day.
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pedophiles
by Tooter Tue September 15, 2009 @ 9:41 AM
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Nate
by ♫Venice♫ Fri May 1, 2009 @ 6:16 PM
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Sio
by ♫Venice♫ Fri May 1, 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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FWIW
by Donno Sat May 2, 2009 @ 6:39 PM
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by ♫Venice♫ Posted Mon April 27, 2009 @ 7:11 PM
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You said, "The truth is that peoples judgments are clouded by their personal feelings on the subject."
I actually think your personal feelings are clouding your judgment.
"I am a young Mexican mother, and the Caucasian associate singled me out for something that wasn't even a policy, but a preference."
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by ♫Venice♫ Posted Mon April 27, 2009 @ 3:53 PM
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It took quite some time, but I finally received a response to my email:
Thank you for contacting us.
We apologize for the delay in responding to your email. It is certainly
not reflective of the significance with which we regard your inquiry.
At Barnes & Noble, we take the safety and security of our customers
seriously, and therefore during peak business hours our Booksellers may
ask parents not to leave their children unattended, or to remain
accompanied by an adult.
We value your patronage and we hope to see you in our stores again soon.
Sincerely,
Customer Relations
Barnes and Noble Customer Service
customerservice@bn.com
We've come full circle. I think this is a very reasonable and flexible approach on behalf of the store, and I still fail to see a reason for never stepping foot in the store again simply because an employee was following procedure. I'm not really looking for any more explanations because this is something I will obviously never understand. I just wanted to share the email response.
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Answer
by ♫Venice♫ Mon April 27, 2009 @ 5:19 PM
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by John M. Posted Sun April 26, 2009 @ 3:30 AM
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I have performed child predator investigations. One incident, a man went into stores like Borders, Toys R Us, and the mall with a hidden camera. In Borders bookstore, he approached an 11 year old girl who was sitting alone on the floor reading a book. The man first spoke to her about how his kids love that book. The man then progressed into a sexual converstaion with her and that was horrific. In Toys R Us, he would find little girls with dresses on walking only a short ways from their parents or even standing next to their parents. He would then prey on them and film up their dresses.
I don't believe the bookstore was belittling your parenting skills, the trust you have in your child, or attempting to call you out and embaress you. I would call their actions a community care-taking responsibility which we all share in protecting our young ones. Open your eyes to the evil in the world and thank the employee for helping to keep your child safe. It only takes a fraction of time while a person turns their back to buy a latte for someone to take that child - forever.
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by Teresa B. Posted Sat April 25, 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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I want you to know why I feel so strongly about this. Why I have never allowed my kids to wander off.
I was 13 years old in 1979. I lived in a small West Tennessee town, nothing ever happend in Weakly county. Not until Sept 1. On that day, Carrie Ann Medlin, age 8 and her little brother were out riding bikes near Greenfield, Tn. Not far from where I grew up. My dad and Carrie Ann's step dad were friends. That day a monster pulled up to Carrie Ann and got her into his car. She was raped, murdered and left on the side of the road like a piece of trash. Her monsters name? Robert Glen Coe. That name mentioned in any part of West Tennessee will get you the entire horrible story. I remember going to the house, like Southerners do when some one dies. I remember sitting out side with her brother and her cousins, while the adults whipered about what had happened. I will never forget it.
Thankfully that monster will never be able to hurt another child. He was put to death on Ap 19, 2000. What truly unbelievable is that he is mentioned in Wikipedi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Glen_Coe
I know you love your son. I can see that. But you have to understand that he is a child...not a small adult version of you. Maybe next time you go to B & N, you can grab your drink, find a book to read and then take your son to the kids department and find a place to sit and read. That way, you are relaxing and letting your child have some freedom. You can see who comes and goes in that area.
Please consider this. I know you know your son, but you dont the Robert Glen Coe's of this world. They dont have the word Pedifile or Pervert written on them. They look just like you and me. I just dont want to see another child end up in the news, missing and found dead in a suit case.
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by Jen09 Posted Thu April 23, 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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Whether your son is a "paying customer" or not, he is a minor child and should not be left unsupervised in a store. Management was right to bring him over to you. This is how children "disappear".
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ah...
by PepperElf Tue July 21, 2009 @ 7:47 AM
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by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Posted Wed April 22, 2009 @ 11:50 PM
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You are lucky it didn't happen the other way around.
Two days ago, I was in Home Depot with all four of my kids. I had my 16 month old on my hip and my 4yo by the hand. My 11yo and his 7yo brother we complaining that they had to go to the bathroom. So we went to the restroom, but my arm was getting tired of holding the baby, so I told them to wait there while I grabbed a cart. After all, I was almost my oldest's age when I started babysitting, right?
Well, they didn't listen, so I traipsed back to the paint department, and an employee asked how I was doing. I groaned and told them I was looking for my disobedient children who didn't wait by the bathrooms.
They called a Code Adam.
No kidding.
I asked them not to. One guy asked for a description and said "What are they? 4 and 5?". I told them no, the oldest is 11, and going into Jr. High and his brother never leaves his side. It didn't matter. They were minors and admitted I was looking for them. It was embarassing for me and my kids, especially when they didn't know why I was so pissed at them when they caught up to me a few aisles from the paint department.
You are lucky you didn't decide to go tell you son his drink was ready and then have an employee find out you were separated from your kid. I guess they are required by law to call a Code Adam when a parent and child are separated.
It's a good thing I've never lost track of my husband, LOL! "Attention Home Depot shoppers! We have a LOST HUSBAND. Please lock down the power tool aisle!"
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i hope you will listen to me when i say that letting your eight year old roam around without you by his side is an engraved invitation to child abduction. please, please, please don't continue to let your child wander around in public ANYWHERE without you being able to see him. i have no desire to hear another horror story on CNN.
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I disagree
by April S. Fri April 24, 2009 @ 7:57 PM
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Sio
by ♫Venice♫ Tue April 28, 2009 @ 5:57 PM
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Teresa
by ♫Venice♫ Thu April 30, 2009 @ 12:13 AM
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Teresa
by ♫Venice♫ Tue April 28, 2009 @ 5:07 PM
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by M S. Posted Mon April 20, 2009 @ 6:00 PM
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You mentioned below that this wasn't a policy of the store as a whole, but something that particular store did every so often.
I've been to this particular location and I have an idea as to why they might want to discourage tweens, teens, and younger kids from wandering around without their parents/guardians. The store is right next door to a movie theater. They've probably had problems with kids hanging out in the store before/after movies and causing a ruckus.
I have no real opinion either way concerning the employee's actions or your reactions, but just wanted to offer an opinion as to why this particular branch would have a policy like this when it wasn't a nation-wide rule.
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by lovescats Posted Sat April 18, 2009 @ 9:36 PM
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Wow, the OP was lucky the store employee didn't call the cops reporting an unattended child. At that hour especially, I would be watching my kid like a hawk. His personal freedom ends where Mr Pervert's desires begin and what a better place than a children's book section.
Sadly, this seems indicative of many parents; let The Village watch the kids because they, the parents, don't have the patience. The kid takes a long time to pick out a book? Well it only takes a second for someone to snatch him up. Isn't it worth the wait to be sure the child is safe? Or better yet, tell the kid he has a certain amount of time in which he can pick his books and after that he looses out until the next time.I bet he will speed things up.
I doubt if the store employee spoke loudly to be rude. She probably just wanted to be heard since she and the parents were some distance away. Anyway, better a rude employee than a kidnapped kid.
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That is what your very young son is going to be if you keep leaving alone with hundreds of strangers.
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by Tiffy611 Posted Wed April 15, 2009 @ 8:46 PM
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1. An emergency in the store- fire breaks out- do you want to evacuate with your child, run about the store looking for him, or face evacuating without him, and hope he comes out alive?
2. You get an emergency phone call and need to leave the store quickly- do you want to waste time searching high and low for him, or react to whatever situation has arisen?
3. Sweet little Timmy gets bored and leaves the "safety" of the childrens' corral and he finds-
The erotica section and reads some risque stories with graphic descriptions of sexual intercourse.
The self-help guides on sexuality with illistrations of sexual positions or even photos thereof along with graphic descriptions.
The empty chair where a dishonest patron has left an open copy of Playboy.
4. As mentioned, he can't reach the top shelf and is severly injured or killed trying to climb the shelf. How would you explain to your paralyzed child he'll never walk because the shelf fell because you weren't there to assist him.
5. This is a stretch, so came last- an armed robber comes in the store, or a gunman intent on violence, would you rather lay on the the floor of the cafe and pray your son is safe, or be at his side?
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...
by PepperElf Thu April 16, 2009 @ 10:16 AM
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Good point.
by Just Jeffrey Mon April 27, 2009 @ 7:22 PM
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But...
by ♫Venice♫ Mon April 27, 2009 @ 7:42 PM
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by Ogre Posted Sun April 12, 2009 @ 4:26 PM
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So I guess what it Boils down to is you want your kid to have free reign of the store and not be hemmed in or constrained in any way, ok i'll grant you that but why not stay near him? is there something wrong with perusing the books with your son? he is eight right? I would think that a responsible dedicated and loving mother like yourself would enjoy spending time with their eight year old. perhaps instead of getting a drink and reading a book while the store/society(the other shoppers in the store) watches your son just perhaps you could take an interest in your kid an see what sort of books he would like to read. hey just a wacky idea but maybe once you have both chosen one you could each get something from the cafe and then read your books enjoying the company of each other. or you could just let you kid wander the store. the negative outcomes in the second scenario are less appealing then the first one but its your choice to raise your child the way you see fit. From the other Replies I gather that you understand that not everyone in society can be trusted but take a look at it from a different angle. you know that the book store could possibly have books that he shouldn't be reading at his age, pictures or no pictures there is definitely something to be said for monitoring. Not so much censoring but at least take an active role in his life.
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The child
by April S. Fri April 24, 2009 @ 8:18 PM
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by Scope Posted Sat April 11, 2009 @ 5:36 AM
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If you don't want your child to be safe, then let him wander around. I guess not all parents can be super, like you.
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Honestly this is just the kind of complaint letter that just makes you shake your head when you are on the receiving end of it.
First of all, since you were not with your son, you have no way of knowing if he was in fact disturbing others or acting in any way that you would not approve of. Based on my retail history, I would comfortably go out on a limb and say that something drew attention to him - it may not have been any big thing, but something made the employee realize that he was alone.
Frankly I am amazed by some of your responses. No matter how great your child is and no matter how mature, he is still your responsibility. I don't understand why you couldn't have chosen your book and even settled into the childrens area while he looked for his. The employees are not there to look out for your child, and regardless of what you think, you put them in a position where they had to.
Seriously, can you imagine the number of signs that would have to be posted for every situation to be covered?
C'mon people - common sense please.
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by Melissap Posted Fri April 10, 2009 @ 5:45 PM
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I haven't ever shopped there for that reason. Screw them i rather buy from walmart
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Yes, but
by ♫Venice♫ Fri April 10, 2009 @ 5:16 PM
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Sio
by ♫Venice♫ Sun April 12, 2009 @ 1:42 PM
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by Adam W. Posted Wed April 8, 2009 @ 11:04 PM
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He may be a good kid but it only takes a second for something to happen. Wasn't Adam Walsh around 8 years old?
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by sue w. Posted Wed April 8, 2009 @ 8:36 PM
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It only takes a matter of minutes for a child to get injured. I work in a B&N. One night a little girl (6-8 yrs old) was left alone in our children's dept. She was trying to reach a book that was too high for her and pulled over an extremely heavy book display. If this display had fallen on her, she would have had serious injuries. Her father had no idea what she was doing because he was off shopping. We had to track him down.
We want our customers to be happy and feel safe in our stores, but it is not our responsibility to make sure your child is safe. I personally do not want the liability of watching anyone elses child except my own. I know what anguish parents feel during the times we have had to call Code Adams in our store. It isn't even my child missing and my heart aches. Fortunately the child has always been located.
Then there is the costs that B&N incurrs while parents are not watching. All those pages torn out, stickers removed, pop-up books torn apart, sometimes while the parent is sitting right there so absorbed that they have no idea what their child is doing. Of course there is never an offer to buy the product, which is now unsaleable. We find damaged product hidden (guilt but not enough to buy it) and put back on the shelf for the next paying customer to find.
Your child may be a paying customer but in the big picture, he can still be a paying customer, safely and responsibly by your side.
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by ♫Venice♫ Posted Wed April 8, 2009 @ 6:25 PM
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After reading the letter writer's comments here, I have to ask...
Is this really such a big deal? So, you've done the same thing hundreds of times with no problem, but now you find out there's actually a policy about leaving children unattended. So, you bought some drinks and settled in, but you were interrupted by an employee asking you to accompany your child. Sign or no sign, what was wrong with simply complying with the rules?.. rules that apply to everyone in the store. For all you know, Borders has the same rule and you've managed to escape it in the past. What are you going to do if on your next visit to Borders you are asked to stay with your child?
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Actually...
by Just Jeffrey Thu April 9, 2009 @ 6:10 PM
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by gb Posted Wed April 8, 2009 @ 2:17 PM
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This policy may be to discourage people dropping their kids off at B&N while they go elsewhere. This used to be a big problem when I worked at video store. we would end up with a bunch of kids and no parents.
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by Nicole F. Posted Wed April 8, 2009 @ 2:03 PM
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Even if there was a sign, people wouldn't follow it anyway.
Just today at work, I had to tell two morons moms not to take their strollers with their kids strapped into them on the escalator. One of them rudely snapped, "Where's the damn sign?"
And I pointed at the large 24'' by 11'' sign right next to the escalator and then told her to use the elevator. The sign itself is bright yellow and one of the pictures has a stroller with a line through it and it states "no wheeled vehicles."
Everyone always harps on signs...common sense shouldn't have to have signs.
Does your son look younger that eight, by any chance? Maybe the associate thought he was much younger.
I think it's a little harsh to completely forego a store just because they are acting in the best interest of your son.
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by fireheart17 Posted Wed April 8, 2009 @ 12:18 AM
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To the OP, read this case, might give you a reason to keep your child nearby.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger
The kid in that case may have only been 2 and the boys 10, but ramp that up 7 or 8 years...
Seriously, what is wrong with people these days? Do we really need to have signs telling us what to do, what not to do? What happened to common sense?
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o.o
by PepperElf Wed April 8, 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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by cissy Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 7:05 PM
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"Signs signs everywhere a sign" "Do this, don't do that can't you read the sign". Too many signs posted create ambivilence. How about good old common sense. Parents must keep their children close, even if they take a long time to pick out a book. Use those precious minutes(half hour) to enjoy each others company.
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Even though you were comfortable letting your son have the run of the store, the employees clearly were not. If he gets hurt, if he gets snatched by some kook, what do you think is gonna be the first headline we see here on PFB?
"BARNES & NOBLE DOESN'T DO ENOUGH TO PROTECT IT'S CUSTOMERS!"
They don't need to post a sign to tell you this. Him being a paying customer is irrelevant, he is still a minor child. In this day and age it's just not safe to let any child go unattended in any public place. There's too much that could go wrong and B&N has every right to enforce this rule to reduce their liability.
It seems kind of unfair for you to stop frequenting them over this when they were only trying to look out for your child's safety, but that is your right as a consumer.
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by robinbird Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 3:25 PM
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I am..I know it has nothing to do with this either..but you cannot leave young children unattended to wander by themselves ANYMORE, ANYWHERE. Come on Mom, get with the reality of the situation. Pedophiles are EVERYWHERE.
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WRONG!
by Wolf Tue April 7, 2009 @ 6:52 PM
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by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Posted Wed April 8, 2009 @ 8:13 AM
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And you put the store employee in an akward position. SHE had to look after your son because she saw an unatttended child in the store. She sees him as an eight-year-old boy; not as a small adult who carries a cell phone. That's all she knows about him-little boy alone in the store. It was very responsible of her to escort your son back to you.
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I would never let my daughter be alone in a store in this day and age. Too many things happen to kids now. I would be grateful that B&N cared enough to keep kids safe.
If your kid had a stack of books fall on him and knock him out or worse, this letter would be totally different.
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by PepperElf Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 2:47 PM
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I won't argue about your son's behavior.
That's not the issue here.
The issue is that... a child alone in a store can get kidnaped.
And late at night, it's harder to search in the dark should this happen.
I know you're upset but... think of it this way... If your son had been kidnapped, you'd be even more upset. And it is likely you'd blame the store.
And even if you say that you wouldn't hold them responsible - SOMEONE would.
The store is simply covering their butts and ensuring all child-customers are safe.
It has nothing to do with your son's status as a customer... but that they want to ensure that your son remains *your son* and doesn't end up on the news in parent's-worst-nightmare story.
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by puyro Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 2:40 PM
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I'm torn on this. I definitely agree with safety being an issue in this day and age, but I also think it may be a little over the top to have an 8 year old glued to a parent's side the entire time in a book store.
If I was the store employee (pretending there is no policy), I would have kept an eye on your son but left him alone unless he was being disruptive/stealing/etc. I wouldn't have said anything, especially not after a measly 5 minutes.
Now if a half hour later he was still by himself, I would start wondering where the parent(s) were and start looking around for you.
It is probably much easier for the company to just stick to a "all children must stay with parents" policy and I understand where B&N is coming from. But still, if your son is anything like me, I like to take my time picking out a book without anyone trailing me around a store, whether it's an employee, parent, or friend.
So, I'm still not sure where to stand on this, since I agree with both sides.
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by M T. Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 1:33 PM
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Two words: "Adam Walsh"
Adam was a little boy abducted from a Sears department store in 1981. He was KILLED shortly thereafter.
Your child's SAFETY is why this employee did what they did and you should be grateful.
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From
by Wolf Tue April 7, 2009 @ 10:14 PM
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by hussyinterrupted Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 1:03 PM
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I do believe that Barnes and Noble has this policy in place to protect your child, just as much as protecting their assets.
I for one would be grateful that a employee approached a young child and was looking to reunite him with his parents, rather than just leave a child wandering around a store not caring what happens to the kid that isn't really old enough to be walking around a big place like that on their own.
Not only are the lots of physical ways the kid could have hurt himself by not paying attention to his surroundings, which is something kids tend to do a lot, but he is stil young enough to get lost and confused in a big place.
Be greatful that Barnes and Noble gives a crap about the safety of your child.
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I've read the other posts with people concerned about the welfare of the child - but no one bothered to ask how the store was set up. While I've never visited this location, the one out by me only has an exit in the front with wide spaces full of non book trinkets before it turns into bookcases with the cafe off to the side. My mother who has no interest in books would often browse through the trinkets before settling into the cafe - within view of the exit - while I browsed through the store. Understandable that things could happen in the back of the store but my mom knew I had a big mouth if anyone tried to "molest" me. Now it would be a different story if it was like the bookstores within malls - and several exits a kid could be taken through or wondered through....
On another note people have been saying why not watch them in the childrens section? When I was eight I was reading Goosebumps and Fearstreet books - def not in the childrens section......
The first thing the employee should have done if there was a problem with the child in the store was calmly ask him if his parents where there, and then proceeded from there. A big scene was not called for - even if regulations said that children weren't supposed to be left unsupervised.
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FYI
by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Tue April 7, 2009 @ 1:25 PM
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by Donno Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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If this embarrassed you, you have some big surprises awaiting you in your son's teenaged years.
Since the loud employee made it clear your son was not causing a problem, that sounds like positive recognition. I think he deserves a compliment.
As a teacher, we always try to team up a positive with a suggested correction. I think the employee basically did a good job, other than perhaps speaking too loudly.
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I think the store employee could have waited until you were closer so she could speak in sotto voce, but I otherwise don't think the store/employees did anything wrong at all. They're just looking out for their young customers, really.
Besides, if anything does happen to a kid who's allowed to wander the store, the store is looking at gigantic liability and horrible publicity for a while. I'm betting the policy was written by the store's lawyers as a CYA sort of thing.
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by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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I've read and re-read the part that embarassed you. And to be honest, I don't think you should have been embarassed about this:
"I see an employee approaching with my 8 yr old son. I started getting up to see what the problem was, but instead she just loudly explained to me from the other side that my son was not causing any problems, they just ask that all children stay with their parents. "
Part of her "loud" explaination was that you son was not doing anything wrong. I would guess that when she saw you get up, she decided to explain to you right away, so you wouldn't worry in the moments preceeding her catching up to you. I know if I saw one of my kids with a store employee, I would want to know IMMEDIATELY what was going on. And since your son didn't do anything wrong, she probably wasn't thinking you were going to get embarassed by something so benign.
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o.o
by PepperElf Thu April 9, 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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It totally amazes me that some are more conerned about a sign/ policy not being posted than permitting an 8yr old to be left on his own in a store.
There could be a sign posted but again, for the most part common sense dictates that you do not leave a child on his/her own in a store like this. And you can post all the signs you want...parents will still leave their child unattended and feel wounded when asked to not do so.
You can still let the child have the freedom without hoovering over them. You can sit on the sidelines and watch or sit and read with your child.
I did however agree that the employees conduct could have been a bit less abrasive. And this it seems is the only reason the complaint was written...the mother was embarrassed...so it seems she cannot see beyond that.
She could have asked the manager to please have the employee not conduct herself in that manner...that most likely would have settled it. Instead she needed to soothe her wounded ego through a larger media.
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by K.B. Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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I might be wrong about this working as a retailer in a mall location, but many malls have specific rules about truancy stating that a child must be with a parent on a school day during those hours, as well as policies saying that children must be accompanied by a parent or adult after 7 pm. any day. If they're not with someone, they will be asked to leave, or a parent will be called depending on their age. I personally checked to see if my current mall had this policy and was disappointed that it did not! You wouldn't believe how young children are that are just left at the mall to be picked up later. I also run a primarily women run store, and people assume we will be babysitting while they do their shopping.
What I'm trying to say, is that perhaps they have a policy like that in place. While your son might be very well behaved, MANY children are not, and unfortunately they ruined things for your child. And, it's not a few decades ago, where kids could roam free safely. There are scary people out there, and I'd personally be glad that someone's encouraging me to keep my child safe.
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by BellaSera Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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Sio, you've mentioned in previous comments that your son is very mature for his age. I believe you, and I believe he was nothing but well behaved and respectful in the store.
However, there are a lot of children who aren't. And while the parenting of those children is not your concern, it is the concern of the store's. Therefore, I don't think it is unreasonable for the store to ask that children be accompanied by an adult at all times, whether those children are well behaved or not.
But I agree there should be a sign. To me, it's not a matter of common sense but a matter of relativity. Some children are well behaved; some are not. Some parents care that their children are causing a disturbance; some don't. Some parents, like you, can let their eight-year-old browse freely without incident; some can't, but still will let their kids raise a ruckus because it gives them a break as parents (unfortunately). Therefore, in the interest of fairness to everyone, I think there should be a sign.
But while I think the policy of the store is reasonable, I think the communication of it could've been handled much better by the employee. Loudly announcing to everyone in the store that you're not watching your child was not the way to handle this. I think she could've just as easily pulled you aside and discretely explained the policy. Had she done this, would you still feel the same way about Barnes & Noble?
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by Nate. Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 10:10 AM
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I was always a precocious child, and my parents let me shop around stores by myself. I'm not sure if it was at 8 or not, as I cannot fully remember...
However I agree with the OP on this letter. There should be a sign. I have seen them at many stores that mention the fact that children should be supervised. This is not the same logic as no men in the womens bathroom as mentioned below. If you feel your child is capable of managing himself, like in this specific instance, I can see where the parents may be willing to let him do this.
All these are what-ifs about kidnapping and pedophiles. If the kid knows how to protect himself, then it should be no problem. If the child comprehends the dangers of going with someone who they have never met, and knows how to respond by screaming/kicking, etc. if forced, then I think B&N is busy enough that this would be quite the scene and while scary, there would be little to no harm done in such an unlikely instance.
Additionally, the employee's rude conduct involving telling to the parents across the store and not coming over is unjustifiable in my opinion.
Finally, if the OP is not happy with the service or policies of the store, then I agree that she should go to Borders from now on. Speaking with your wallet sends the strongest message.
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With all due respect Sioteh, I find it hard to read this type of complaint after just reading that they found 8 yr old Sandra Cantu dead after being missing for several days. There's just too much that can happen to an unaccompanied child. If you think he is safer because you are in the store as well, you might want to think about Adam Walsh. His mother was in Sears when he was snatched from there and ultimately killed.
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You know
by Donno Tue April 7, 2009 @ 1:04 PM
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by Casmly Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 9:30 AM
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I really don't see how it would have been such a big deal for you or your husband to choose a couple of books for yourself and then accompany your child over to the children's section. I have an 8 year old and a 4 year old, so obviously I have to accompany my kids. However, with my daughter, I give her more space. I allow her to look through the children's section while I sit on the stairs or table in that section. If she has a question or needs me at all, I'm right there. If not, she enjoys browsing books appropriate for her age.
As others have suggested, there are plenty of nasty people out there ready to take advantage of unaccompanied children. There are also plenty of people out there ready to sue stores when their child is hurt or violated in some way, even though they weren't watching their own child. I also see books that have been ripped up, plastic torn off, bent up etc. especially in the children's section. There are so many reasons why a store such as B&N would require you to watch your child.
I do believe that the employee could have been more tactful when telling you of their policy.
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by gb Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 9:28 AM
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Imagine if the worst happened.....the letter would read B&N let my kid get kidnapped.....where is their security!?
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by tali Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 9:05 AM
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When my son was 6 and needed to use the restrooms at Pizza Hut, he went in and an older man followed him in. These were single toilet rooms.I came out of my seat so fast and was at the door. It was locked. Banging on the door and called the staff for help. Ready to take the door down, the man unlocked the door and wanted to know what the big deal was. The big deal was my son was 6 and he was in his thirties. He said they are both "boys". Exactly, with an age discrepency that prohibits this type of behavior. Very glad I was watching closely and employees were there to back me up. Keep your kids close and a watchful eye at all times.
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McDonalds
by Cor H. Tue April 7, 2009 @ 7:50 AM
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by petalmom Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 7:00 AM
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I don't think that it's at all unreasonable for a store to expect minors to be accompanied by an adult. I'm sure that it's as much about his safety as anything else. The world is full of weirdos.
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by Just Jeffrey Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 6:58 AM
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You might want to address this with the manager. Specifically, just ask about the policy. Ask why.
It could be anything from other kids causing trouble to a liability issue. Hopefully you'll get the definitive answer from this letter.
However... I visit B&N with my kids often (sometimes this exact store, but more often ones in Seven Corners or Fairfax) and have noted that there is a sign, in the children's section, that says that kids must be with their parents. Note that this sign is in the children's section, so if you never go there, you might have no idea. As you might expect, there are some parents that dump their preschoolers at the Thomas playset or let their kids play on the stage while the parents shop elsewhere in the store. I've seen it plenty of times, myself. Mostly when I'm the one settling disputes over who gets to use Gordon now and find that there some pre-verbal kid's parents aren't even there.
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by ♫Venice♫ Posted Tue April 7, 2009 @ 2:31 AM
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I knew what the complaint was going to be as soon as I started reading the letter. The one thing everyone agreed on in the letter to Target is that stores can't post signs for everything, and I guess this is just one of those things that doesn't require a sign, similar to a sign stating no men are allowed in the women's dressing room.
Children should not be left alone in a store. Being a paying customer has nothing to do with it. Your child may be mature enough to be on his own and not disturb others or damage merchandise, but since B&N can't evaluate the children who enter the store, it's easier to just have a policy. It always made sense to me never to leave my children alone anywhere. They could disappear in the blink of an eye. Just curious though... why were you embarrassed?
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