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Top 25 Letters
The selection and placement of letters on this page were determined automatically by a computer program.

  1. Rude confrontation with a senior member of your management.
  2. Suggestion Box Update
  3. Regarding the Members of Planet Feedback
  4. The Suggestion Box
  5. What Can You Do for Us as President, John McCain?
  6. Children not wanted at Kaufmann's
  7. Suggestion Box Update
  8. Kissing at the Chili's
  9. Safety placard shoved in my face
  10. Return Policy Will Cost Target Millions
  11. My Son is Also a Customer, Barnes & Noble
  12. Movies at the Hilton
  13. Amazon.com sells pornography
  14. Beating Dead Horses! (no offense to any PETA supporters!!!!)
  15. 3 yr old injured
  16. The CDC is wrong....would you want my blood?
  17. Removal of Emily Gillete from Delta Flight 6160
  18. Turned away on Christmas Day by Blockbuster
  19. Inconsiderate Wait Staff
  20. MERRY CHRISTMAS at Target is a dirty word!
  21. BILL MAHER, FIRED
  22. After more than 30 years shopping at Wal-Mart.....I'm done. Never again.
  23. David Letterman is Not a Gentleman!
  24. Target's Refusal to Issue a Credit
  25. Rip Off Pizza Joint and only Average Pizza




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Target's Refusal to Issue a Credit

Posted Wed February 27, 2008 12:00 pm, by Valerie S. written to Target Corporation

Write a Letter to this Company  |  Rate this Company


I made a purchase with my debit card, not as credit, as a debit, in the amount of $65.76. As I had planned, after I left Target I went to another store to buy some groceries, which would leave me enough money in my account for a tank full of gas and little cushion until pay day. When I went to check out at the grocery store, my debit card was declined. I couldn't understand it because I had checked my balance that morning and knew exactly how much I had, and how much I spent at Target. I had to leave with no groceries and was very embarrassed.

When I got home and checked my online banking, there it was: Target had charged me TWICE for the same transaction for a total of $131.52 in debits to my account, which threw it into the negative and caused a $25 NSF fee. I immediately called Target to tell them what had happened, and asked how they would credit my account for the error. After going through the whole story with the person on the phone, I was put on hold to speak with a "supervisor", who - after I explained it again - said I'd have to come down there but there was probably nothing they could do. Amazed at this response, I asked to speak to someone above the one I had just spoken to, was "put on hold" and mysteriously disconnected. I then went to my bank to point out the error, and get a printout to take to Target showing the double-debit. I got to Target, had to go through the whole story again with a clerk, who said I needed to talk to a manager. The "manager" came over, I showed him my documentation, explained what happened, and that I wanted my money back in my account immediately - remember, I now had zero $ in my account, needed gas and food to last the week until I get paid, and had probably just used another 1/8 of a tank running back and forth between my bank and Target. He absolutely refused, and used the "there's nothing we can do" line. He had gotten a printout of my transaction, and told me to take it to my bank and get them to reverse the charge. The bank had already told me that Target would have to reverse the charge because the money had cleared to them. I told him I wanted him to speak with my bank representative and that I wouldn't leave the store without my money. He tossed the pages of the printout on the counter, said "I don't talk to banks" and walked away, just leaving me standing there in disbelief. To top off the insanity of this situation: the printout he tossed at me not only had my debit card and purchase information on it, but the names, card #s and purchase information for four other people! This guy handed me people's credit card information with no regard for their privacy and left me there with it! It's a good thing I'm an honest person and not inclined to steal people's identities or use their cards fraudulently.

I did end up leaving the store without my money when I realized they had no intention of reversing their error. They had a security guard come stand at the counter, no doubt to intimidate me, even though I hadn't used any profanity, and hadn't raised my voice to a threatening level (and yes I have witnesses). I merely was insisting that they return the money they had wrongly take from me. I am still without my $65.76 five days later, though my bank did reverse the NSF fee. I have had to file a dispute with my bank, which will take 10 days to be resolved. I've been turning the couch cushions inside out searching for pennies to buy gas to get to work, have soup and bread left in my cupboards (this is NOT an exaggeration), and still have three days until I get paid - I have no access to money that is MINE. Yes, in a perfect world I'd have had some backup funds in my account, or savings, but due to a lot of different circumstances largely beyond my control,at this time I do not. However, this shouldn't even be the point. The point is I'm left holding the bag for the multi-billion dollar Target Corporation and having to scrape by to survive for a week through NO fault of my own. I also wonder how many other people this has happened to, and how much money this adds up to for Target? Keeping people's money they have NO RIGHT TO KEEP and collecting interest on it? And they have NO RESPONSIBILITY to fix the error, it's up to me and my bank?! This is an egregious example of poor customer service at best, and criminal at worst. Target has literally stolen money from me. If there's anyone out there who knows of a way to hold them accountable, please let me and any other victims of their criminal practices know. This is just wrong.

Refund the $65.76, pay for a full tank of gas and a week's worth of groceries, and an apology for the treatment I received from your unprofessional "manager". No, I don't want a gift certificate at Target because I'll never set one foot in that store again.


Reply



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by Ruffino Posted Sun April 13, 2008 @ 9:08 PM

I've heard of this happening to other people, and thankfully it has
never happened to me. I hope this gets resolved quickly. I don't
agree, however, that Target owes you a tank of gas and a week's worth
of groceries.

You might consider not using your debit card for purchases in the
future. I'm just about to that point myself.

Reply
by Disgruntled Retail Employee Posted Wed April 2, 2008 @ 2:44 PM

This is very unfortunate, and I'm sorry it happened to you. It
happened to me once, and she staff was very apologetic and explained
everything to me. Working in retail, I have dealt with this sort of
thing myself. No one at the store level has the power to reverse
fees, however there is something that manager could have (and should
have) done. Report the situation to Financial Services, the Target
entity that does have the power to take care of such situations. It
is not immediate, it does take a few days for them to ensure the money
is back in your account, but it is the only thing that can be done.
If for some reason the cashier had to void something in the
transaction once payment was made, on the store's end, payment was
voided and proof of that should be available. It can take a few days
before your bank credits your account, but on the store's side, it is
immediate.

As far as the security guard standing at the counter to 'intimidate
you'...guilty conscience, perhaps? You do not know why he was there.
He may have been watching something / someone else. You are entitled
to your money and an apology, but demanding a tank of gas and a week's
worth of groceries? Come on.

Reply
by lindalou Posted Wed April 2, 2008 @ 12:50 PM

That is awful what happened to you and I have no doubt that you are
just one of thousands that this happens to.

After Christmas a women was trying to return an item that was put in
her cart that she did not pay for.
The customer service girl was so confused as she did not know what to
do. The lady said, I didn't pay for this, I am returning it to the
store....what do you have to do? The girl looks at her and says I can
not give you a credit for this. The lady says I am not asking for a
credit, I want you to take your merchandise and put it back to be
sold. The girl, still looking perplexed says we cannot do that in our
store. Here someone is being honest and has to go through something
like that.



Another incident a few weeks later ...I was checking out a cart full
of items and at the end of the transaction the women looks at me and
says...that will be 3.00. Three dollars? I had over a hundred
dollars worth of items. I said , how can that be 3.00? Look at all
this stuff. She looks at the receipt and realized it rang up one
thing and the rest of it was not rung up even though it went through
the scanner.

We just got a new Target in our area and I have gone maybe a dozen
times and have witnessed some really
stupid things take place.

I can not understand why they will not look at the transaction on the
register and realize that you were charged two times. Not that hard
to figure out if you know what you are doing. The old adage that the
customer is always right seems to have gone by the wayside.

If I had the extra money I would give it to you. I hope that you get
this resolved. Target is a good store with some very stupid people
working in it.

Reply

by AvesMum Posted Mon March 31, 2008 @ 9:16 PM

Just a thought:
Look at the issue differently.
The manager obviously has very little skill in customer relationships,
(I would hate to see how he treats employees.) If he placed a piece of
paper in front of you with any other identifiable information, I hope
you reported it to Corporate Headquarters.

Reply
by love h. Posted Fri March 28, 2008 @ 9:45 PM

AWW MAN, I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL, ITS HARD TO MAKE A LIVING IN THIS COLD
WORLD TODAY, AND GAS PRICES ARE ONLY GONNA KEEP GOING UP. NOT ONLY
THAT, EVERY PLACE THESE DAYS HAVE HORRIBLE SERVICE. IVE HAD THAT SAME
THING HAPPEN TO ME WHERE IVE BEEN OVER CHARGED, LETS SEE, WAL-MART,
B-P GAS STATION, GOODYS CLOTHING, JC PENNY. ITS BECAUSE THEY SWIPE
YOUR CARD MORE THAN ONE TIME. WHEN THE CASHIER SWIPES YOUR CARD THAT
SECOND TIME, THATS WHEN YOU STOP THE CASHIER, AND ASK FOR THE MANAGER,
AND HAVE THE MANAGER COMMUNICATE WITH THE BANK THAT THE CARD WAS
SWIPED MORE THAN ONCE. IT MAY NOT SAY THAT ON THE SCREEN, BUT
SOMETIMES THERES MALFUNCITON IN THE CREDIT SYSTEM THAT OVERCAHRGESYOU.
AND NO BUISNESS HAS EVER GIVIN ME MY MONEY BACK BESIES, LOWES, AND
GOODYS. ALL THEY DID WAS REFUND THE ITEM NUMBER OFF THE RECIEPT ONE
TIME, SO I WOULD ATLEAST GET THAT ONE CREDIT BACK .SORRY YOU HAD TO
DEAL WITH THAT, IT HAS BEEN A BAD PROBLEM THESE DAYS.

Reply
by dottiejean28 Posted Fri March 28, 2008 @ 7:16 PM

Target charged her twice for a lampshade...then would'nt credit her
back for it...she had to do the same back and forth with the banks and
card companies and store.

She is just going to dispute the charge with her CC company

Reply

by d0rkiishchris Posted Wed March 26, 2008 @ 1:59 AM

Companies have been doing this lately saying they are not responsible
to issue a refund on money that isn't theres. I don't really
understand this train of thought or business practice. They have 65
bucks that isn't theres.

Similar thing happened to be a 7-11. I turned it over to VISA fraud
and things got straightened out in a few days. It is fraud, they ran
your card without your permission and are responsible to refund the
money, but they claim they're not.

Just call that number on the back of your card, its the easiest thing
to do. A lot easier than being rudely treated by some retard without
a college degree.

Reply
by Rhet C. Posted Mon March 17, 2008 @ 5:04 PM

And looking for false sympathy. Your points are valid, and I realize
money can get tight from paycheck to paycheck, but playing the victim
hardly solves your problems. That part of your story wasn't
necessary.

Peace!

Reply

When is it acceptable by Keith C. Mon March 24, 2008 @ 4:30 AM

Sure there is by Rhet C. Mon March 24, 2008 @ 7:39 PM

Who appointed you arbiter of such things? by Keith C. Mon March 24, 2008 @ 8:13 PM

I never play the victim role dude by Rhet C. Thu March 27, 2008 @ 4:43 PM

Oh geez. by Keith C. Tue April 8, 2008 @ 12:05 AM

Don't forget Keith by T. C. Thu April 10, 2008 @ 12:36 AM

by Cee Dub Posted Sun March 16, 2008 @ 3:52 PM

As someone who struggles financially EVERY day, you have my sincerest
condolences. Every penny counts to many, MANY people and it disgusts
me that Target would not recognize that (aren't they working people
too, hello?) and help you. Absolutely disgusting! I'm so, SO sorry
this happened to you.

Reply

I would have stayed there til they called the cops by dottiejean28 Thu March 20, 2008 @ 12:38 PM


by Max Power Posted Fri March 14, 2008 @ 6:00 PM

Have you gotten your money back? If not then write to them through the
BBB and go to this website: www.consumerist.com, look for the link to
e-mail them and hopefully Target will become aware of the situation.



(Sorry if you already answered the question but this site is not
letting me see all the replies for some reason, I'm sure its just my
computer.)

Reply

by neka Posted Mon March 10, 2008 @ 10:31 PM

I just wrote them a letter myself, they double billed me for come
curtains and were giving me a hard time resolving it. Good luck, I'm
sorry all this happened to you.

Reply


Did they reimburse you? by TargetVictim Tue March 11, 2008 @ 1:44 AM

by TargetVictim Posted Thu March 6, 2008 @ 10:05 PM

I wanted to let you all know in between all the discussions of
politics and religion that my bank concluded its investigation
regarding the money Target refused to refund two weeks ago - the
provisional credit is now a permanent one. Big surprise, it was
Target's mistake, not the bank and not me. So, I'll take the advice I
received from Andrew 1 and seek an apology from Target and this
employee - in a very positive way. :o)

As for the "off-topic" discussions in here, you're obviously a
passionate bunch of people and the majority of you clearly know how to
carry on a civil debate. I'm enjoying reading these latest posts.

If/when I'm successful receiving my much sought after apology, I'll be
sure to pass that on.

Thanks for all your advice and support, I really do appreciate it.

Reply


I don't want to take credit... by Andrew 1 Thu March 6, 2008 @ 11:38 PM


My track record... by TargetVictim Fri March 7, 2008 @ 12:17 AM


AWESOME!!! by SuzieCat Fri March 7, 2008 @ 10:52 AM


by Candace K. Posted Thu March 6, 2008 @ 3:34 PM

That is truly horrendous. I've had that happen before at a different
store and they credited my account immediately. I would call the
better business bureau on them.
That is truly awful. You were totally wronged.

Reply


How it feels when something like this happens... by TargetVictim Thu March 6, 2008 @ 10:38 PM


credit by Candace K. Sun March 9, 2008 @ 3:39 PM


Absolutely... by TargetVictim Tue March 11, 2008 @ 1:49 AM

by TargetVictim Posted Wed March 5, 2008 @ 10:34 PM

"When you decided to make this about more than your personal (and very
unfortunate) experience."

This site exists specifically for the purpose of posting people's
unfortunate experiences and opinions regarding the subject of their
complaint letters. I never deviated from my original complaint until
you posted your diatribe.

"At THAT point, you invited others to pile on with their personal pet
peeves..."

Again, that is what this site is here for, I didn't invite anybody to
do anything, PFB invites anyone and everyone to come here and espouse
their opinions, pet peeves, what have you, about companies they feel
have mistreated them - not politics, and not religion. That's what
political and religious forums are for.

You were actually the first in any of the threads pertaining to my
experience to mention "spiritual and political reasons" as to why you
wouldn't shop at Target, and unfortunately some of us myself included
- took the bait. I certainly didn't invite you to do that. I'll have
to reread my posts, but I'm quite sure I never mentioned one thing
about politics or religion until you jumped in seemingly in hopes of
stirring up debate to further your agenda. Frankly, I don't need or
want enlightenment to your way, truth and light. It's not authentic.
I'm also certain Jesus Christ himself would have chosen a kinder and
less judgmental way of addressing people he wanted to guide to his way
of thinking. It is this type of behavior that continues to turn people
away from your so-called Christianity. This certainly isn't the
Christianity I practice.

"...but I think you've (excuse me) gone off the deep end."

If forming my own opinion and not being a lemming is your idea of
going off the deep end, then I'm guilty and proud of it. Besides,
someone who refuses to shop at Target because it's a "French" company
before checking the facts, then telling another person they've gone
off the deep end well that's the epitome of hypocrisy, and the
Almighty and Jesus himself apparently despised hypocrisy. I invite you
to check the facts on that as well.

I haven't made my experience out to be anything other than what it is
- a greedy corporation's policies that apparently encourage its
employees to hold their ground whether it's right or wrong. As for
"remedying their mistake in a timely manner", they have YET to remedy
their mistake, and in fact they have yet to take any responsibility
whatsoever for it. I gave them every opportunity to do the right thing
before posting here or sending editorials to publications, so I know
I've done the right thing.

I also know that every single employee who works for Target isn't evil
or unprofessional, and I don't hate anybody. I don't appreciate being
treated with complete disrespect by a Target employee that is in a
leadership role at his store. I also take strong exception to a
corporation the size of Target that won't take responsibility for its
mistakes and seems to view its customers as expendable. I could have
chosen another phrase than "corporate pigs", I suppose, but it
certainly seems appropriate in this and the millions of other cases of
corporate wrongdoing. No, not just Target, but those of any number of
big corporations that bully their way around average people's
pocketbooks in order to bring their stock options up. Anyone who
doesn't believe this is a problem - more now than ever - needs to read
up on current events and get educated about what's happening on a
global scale, not just the vacuum they're living in.

Finally, two suggestions for you - take them or leave them:

If you don't have anything constructive to say and can't say it in an
intelligent, civil manner, keep your fingers off the keyboard.

Try reading more than the Bible it can be very useful when presenting
an argument to those who do.

This is the last response to any of your entries I'll make unless they
pertain specifically to the issue of consumer rights and complaints,
so if you're hoping for some more folks to take your bait, you can
count me out.

Reply


You've mixed up... by All About the Branding Wed March 5, 2008 @ 10:43 PM


I don't think so... by TargetVictim Wed March 5, 2008 @ 11:06 PM


I stand corrected... by TargetVictim Wed March 5, 2008 @ 11:13 PM


The religious discussion thatMaggity and I are having... by All About the Branding Thu March 6, 2008 @ 6:50 AM


Your apparent difficulty understanding what I'm saying... by TargetVictim Thu March 6, 2008 @ 11:47 AM


You don't get to decide... by All About the Branding Thu March 6, 2008 @ 2:03 PM


I never asked you to skip my posts... by TargetVictim Thu March 6, 2008 @ 9:47 PM


Negativity is negativity... by TargetVictim Wed March 5, 2008 @ 11:26 PM


Negativity is negativity... by All About the Branding Thu March 6, 2008 @ 6:55 AM


Judgemental by Andrew 1 Mon March 10, 2008 @ 5:40 AM


Unfortunately by TargetVictim Tue March 11, 2008 @ 2:06 AM


That's what the internet is for... by Andrew 1 Tue March 11, 2008 @ 6:12 AM


Well... by TargetVictim Wed March 12, 2008 @ 2:54 AM
by Maggitty Posted Tue March 4, 2008 @ 11:36 AM

I am so sorry this happened to you. I can't stand Target & the only
reason I look at their sale paper is to take it to Wal-Mart for a
price match! :) My reasons for not patronizing Target are political &
spiritual, but NOW that goes even deeper. This has GOT to be a fairly
common problem & there should be a solution in their big red employee
handbook. The fact that there isn't, just goes to show they could
really care less.

Kinda reminds me of their commercials; you know, where identical
merchandise multiply's right before your eyes in an attempt to subdue
your senses, so you don't see your debit charges multiplying as
well...

Reply


Political and spiritual reasons? by SiouxFan Tue March 4, 2008 @ 3:12 PM

LOL! So, you want me to get flamed, do ya? by Maggitty Tue March 4, 2008 @ 4:07 PM


And this is why I wanted to know by SiouxFan Tue March 4, 2008 @ 6:05 PM


Snopes... by The New and Improved Brenda Tue March 4, 2008 @ 6:32 PM


Wow, I didn't believe anyone actually still believed that bull! by RedheadwGlasses Tue March 4, 2008 @ 8:12 PM


Oops, here is the snopes.com link by RedheadwGlasses Tue March 4, 2008 @ 8:14 PM


Who wants "summa dis?" by BellaSera Tue March 4, 2008 @ 9:51 PM


Two questions... by StoicGrrl Tue March 4, 2008 @ 11:23 PM

Two Answers... by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 1:21 AM


Interesting... by StoicGrrl Wed March 5, 2008 @ 7:02 AM

StoicGrrl: by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 10:35 AM

Oh Myyyyy by Maggitty Tue March 4, 2008 @ 4:14 PM


Stop it by ♥Venice♥ Tue March 4, 2008 @ 9:39 PM

To Everyone... by Maggitty Tue March 4, 2008 @ 11:36 PM


When... by TargetVictim Wed March 5, 2008 @ 1:56 AM


When you decided... by All About the Branding Wed March 5, 2008 @ 8:17 AM


Your experience is not common by SiouxFan Wed March 5, 2008 @ 9:29 AM


gay and lesbian info requested by SuzieCat Wed March 5, 2008 @ 7:16 AM

Suzie... by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 9:58 AM


no need for a reread by SuzieCat Wed March 5, 2008 @ 10:12 AM


Can I get an example? by SuzieCat Wed March 5, 2008 @ 1:08 PM

Suzie: by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 2:51 PM


hypocritcal? by SuzieCat Wed March 5, 2008 @ 3:30 PM

Suzie: by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 3:49 PM


I wouldnt trust anything by MA Cunningham Thu March 6, 2008 @ 12:03 PM

Yes, I do: by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 2:44 PM

Reality Check by Keith C. Mon March 24, 2008 @ 4:56 AM


This is the kind of debate by TargetVictim Wed March 5, 2008 @ 11:47 PM


passion by SuzieCat Thu March 6, 2008 @ 9:48 AM


It's pretty sad by Adam D Mon March 10, 2008 @ 7:44 PM


Maggity... by All About the Branding Wed March 5, 2008 @ 7:42 AM

All About Branding: by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 10:09 AM


There are plenty of conservative/Republican gays and lesbians by RedheadwGlasses Wed March 5, 2008 @ 9:03 AM

Red: by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 10:20 AM


How can you equate being gay to beind a drug user/addict??? by RedheadwGlasses Wed March 5, 2008 @ 1:02 PM

Red: by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 1:26 PM


Where do you get the word of God? by All About the Branding Wed March 5, 2008 @ 2:12 PM

You can get the Word of God... by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 2:38 PM

Do you have his email addy? by Steve-Oh Wed March 5, 2008 @ 2:41 PM

Steve: by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 3:01 PM

I think you're avoiding Branded's question. by Steve-Oh Wed March 5, 2008 @ 4:11 PM

No, I'm really not, Steve... by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 4:46 PM


Nope, you didn't answer my question. by All About the Branding Wed March 5, 2008 @ 8:06 PM

Branding: by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 2:53 PM


gay person's interpretation? What gay person? by RedheadwGlasses Wed March 5, 2008 @ 7:33 PM

Words = Death by Keith C. Mon March 24, 2008 @ 5:11 AM


Now I hate to get into this topic by SiouxFan Wed March 5, 2008 @ 9:20 AM

SiouxFan: by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 10:29 AM


Geez! by MA Cunningham Fri March 7, 2008 @ 9:07 AM

Geez ditto! by Maggitty Fri March 7, 2008 @ 10:45 AM


But your convictions by MA Cunningham Fri March 7, 2008 @ 12:51 PM


It looks like by LadyMac Wed March 5, 2008 @ 11:45 AM

LadyMac: by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 12:16 PM


That's not what "chosen people" means by RedheadwGlasses Wed March 5, 2008 @ 1:04 PM

Red: by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 1:27 PM

Red: Oops... by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 1:30 PM


You couldn't be more wrong by RedheadwGlasses Wed March 5, 2008 @ 7:36 PM

Red: by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 3:25 PM


JUST FYI by MA Cunningham Thu March 6, 2008 @ 12:12 PM


I was younger than that.. by Harleycat Thu March 6, 2008 @ 3:57 PM


WHAT?!? by SuzieCat Thu March 6, 2008 @ 5:12 PM

Catholicism & Christianity by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 6:10 PM

Ack, I've tried to stay out of this by Peregrina Thu March 6, 2008 @ 9:48 PM

Peregrina: by Maggitty Fri March 7, 2008 @ 11:26 AM


It was a long time ago.. by Harleycat Fri March 7, 2008 @ 8:28 AM


No matter how late (and stupid of me to get involved) by Blackrack Sat April 5, 2008 @ 7:22 AM


Oh dear. by All About the Branding Wed March 5, 2008 @ 2:17 PM

Oh my, Branding one... by Maggitty Wed March 5, 2008 @ 3:11 PM


I don't condemn you. by All About the Branding Wed March 5, 2008 @ 8:36 PM


Maggity is just one more "Christian" who picks and chooses out of the Bible by RedheadwGlasses Thu March 6, 2008 @ 1:30 PM


what the bible says...my very limited knowledge by SuzieCat Thu March 6, 2008 @ 2:19 PM

Suzie: by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 4:25 PM


!! by SuzieCat Thu March 6, 2008 @ 5:35 PM

Suzie, you must be speaking of... by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 5:58 PM


equal/head by SuzieCat Thu March 6, 2008 @ 6:13 PM

Yes, women can lead... by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 6:52 PM


ego by SuzieCat Thu March 6, 2008 @ 7:13 PM

Thank you Suzie by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 8:06 PM


and... by SuzieCat Thu March 6, 2008 @ 8:39 PM

Suzie, I'm just gonna intrude... by Peregrina Thu March 6, 2008 @ 10:04 PM


But I have to wonder by MA Cunningham Fri March 7, 2008 @ 12:43 PM


The previous versions of the bible didn't have those statements, Suzie by RedheadwGlasses Fri March 7, 2008 @ 2:07 PM


Did Jesus or did he not by MA Cunningham Thu March 6, 2008 @ 2:28 PM

Amen MA Cunningham by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 3:07 PM


One of our regulars by MA Cunningham Thu March 6, 2008 @ 3:18 PM

MA Cunningham: by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 3:50 PM

Springer by Keith C. Mon March 24, 2008 @ 5:33 AM


Aren't there passages.. by Harleycat Thu March 6, 2008 @ 3:51 PM


Look at how many by MA Cunningham Thu March 6, 2008 @ 4:06 PM

Yes, there are many different versions... by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 5:42 PM


Correct, HOWEVER by MA Cunningham Fri March 7, 2008 @ 8:53 AM

Love the sinner... by Maggitty Fri March 7, 2008 @ 11:00 AM


He didn't care about the sin by MA Cunningham Fri March 7, 2008 @ 1:33 PM

If He didn't care about sin... by Maggitty Fri March 7, 2008 @ 5:21 PM


Translations by Andrew 1 Sun March 9, 2008 @ 4:37 AM

I don't recall any by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 4:51 PM


I suggest a re-read.. by Harleycat Fri March 7, 2008 @ 8:26 AM

LOL! You re-read it! Neeners! :P n/t by Maggitty Fri March 7, 2008 @ 11:02 AM


Neeners?? by Harleycat Fri March 7, 2008 @ 11:25 AM

HarleyCat: by Maggitty Fri March 7, 2008 @ 11:38 AM


We said it differently... by Harleycat Fri March 7, 2008 @ 1:33 PM

We said that too... by Maggitty Fri March 7, 2008 @ 7:45 PM

Stoning People? by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 4:30 PM

Red: by Maggitty Thu March 6, 2008 @ 4:55 PM

Gay & Lesbian by Keith C. Mon March 24, 2008 @ 4:54 AM


I just have one question. by (i hate more than you) vc Fri March 7, 2008 @ 5:52 PM

As Old As... by Maggitty Fri March 7, 2008 @ 7:38 PM


Really? by (i hate more than you) vc Sat March 8, 2008 @ 4:03 AM

Cutesy? by Maggitty Sat March 8, 2008 @ 11:57 AM


The purpose of the question: by (i hate more than you) vc Sat March 8, 2008 @ 1:25 PM

Well, by Maggitty Sat March 8, 2008 @ 5:09 PM

The earth is by T. C. Wed March 12, 2008 @ 9:23 PM

The earth is WHAT? by Maggitty Thu March 13, 2008 @ 1:00 AM


Um, no, try about 4.5 billion years old by RedheadwGlasses Thu March 13, 2008 @ 1:21 PM

Ahhhh.... by Maggitty Thu March 13, 2008 @ 10:12 PM


This is backed up by SiouxFan Fri March 14, 2008 @ 7:54 PM

Tell me... by Maggitty Fri March 14, 2008 @ 11:35 PM


That's because it's science! by SiouxFan Sat March 15, 2008 @ 12:06 AM

I've been reading by Keith C. Mon March 24, 2008 @ 5:42 AM


by TargetVictim Posted Tue March 4, 2008 @ 2:07 AM

If you're interested in seeing more examples of the ethics and
business practices this corporation employs other than my opinion,
read here: http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/rs/profile.cfm?id=295

Reply

by Adam D Posted Mon March 3, 2008 @ 6:32 PM

I would try to call the corp. office. I think siouxfan can tell you
how to go from there!

Reply


Oh? by TargetVictim Tue March 4, 2008 @ 2:09 AM
by Pegreenw Posted Mon March 3, 2008 @ 1:59 AM

Report them to the Better Business bureau and Federal trade commision.

Reply


Neither will yield immediate results. by All About the Branding Mon March 3, 2008 @ 9:43 AM


by Queen Green Posted Sat March 1, 2008 @ 7:03 PM

If I were you I would track down those customers and inform them that
this information was disclosed to me, provide them with copies of the
information and let them do what they see fit. This manager "may not
speak with banks" but if I were one of the four, he would be speaking
to my attorney!

Reply


I was able to track two of them by TargetVictim Sat March 1, 2008 @ 7:07 PM


I hadn't even thought of that n/t by RedheadwGlasses Sat March 1, 2008 @ 8:37 PM
by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Posted Fri February 29, 2008 @ 5:03 PM

Ebay does this to me all the time. I get double charged for just about
everything. I even had to call my landlord once and ask him not to
cash the rent check until the credit went through (two weeks later!!)
THAT was embarassing!!

Reply


It looks like.. by Harleycat Fri February 29, 2008 @ 5:09 PM
by Final Score: Boys-3, Girls-1 Posted Fri February 29, 2008 @ 5:03 PM

Ebay does this to me all the time. I get double charged for just about
everything. I even had to call my landlord once and ask him not to
cash the rent check until the credit went through (two weeks later!!)
THAT was embarassing!!

Reply


I've read a TON about this on the net... by TargetVictim Sat March 1, 2008 @ 12:04 AM


Depends on what you are buying and selling, and how you do business by Knuckles Sat March 1, 2008 @ 10:33 PM

feedback by justZu Mon March 3, 2008 @ 10:52 AM

Ohhh the Irony... by Maggitty Tue March 4, 2008 @ 11:22 AM

by Rated Argh Posted Fri February 29, 2008 @ 11:35 AM

You have my sympathy and empathy. I have had several instances where
someone has taken more than they should have and it almost always like
pulling teeth to get the money back. As others have suggested, I would
call their corporate office and report the incident, they may ask you
to fax your receipt or your Bank Statement. It is good to hear you
have made some headway in getting back what is yours.

Reply

by RowdyRetailer Posted Fri February 29, 2008 @ 9:30 AM

Cash is King!

Reply


Darn straight! by TargetVictim Sat March 1, 2008 @ 12:01 AM

by SumnerMan Posted Fri February 29, 2008 @ 6:34 AM

multiple times. It's easy enough to rectify if you're dealing with a
retailer (manager) that doesn't have their head up their ***. At
Walgreens if a person has been charged twice on their debit card and
it can be shown it was due to a glitch (which in your case that was
CLEARLY shown) then I've just refunded the customer with cash. It's
just that simple.

You can bet that if it's happened to you then it's happened to other
people and I'm sure that Target has some sort of process to rectify
the problem with the customer. You just came across an idiot for a
manager.

Reply


You're right, and after I have the proof I need by TargetVictim Sat March 1, 2008 @ 12:45 AM


Hey! Don't be a victim! by Andrew 1 Sat March 1, 2008 @ 9:13 AM


Excellent point and very well taken! by TargetVictim Sat March 1, 2008 @ 7:11 PM


by TargetVictim Posted Fri February 29, 2008 @ 2:15 AM

As of this writing I have a provisional credit in my bank account for
the full amount. Can someone explain exactly how the provisional
credit works? If they were to find in their opinion (the bank) there
was nothing wrong and it was my fault, would they then just take the
money back out as quickly as it went in? Would they inform me of the
decision first and give me a "heads up" that the money would be
withdrawn again? How does that work? I can't IMAGINE that would happen
since this is obviously an error on the bank or Target's part, but
just so I have an understanding of how this works. Should I not
consider that money mine until I get word from the bank that it's been
settled?

Reply


Call the bank by Jared M. Fri February 29, 2008 @ 6:34 AM


Jared's right... by SumnerMan Fri February 29, 2008 @ 6:35 AM


Provisional Credit by Lia Fri February 29, 2008 @ 10:42 AM


Thank you! by TargetVictim Sat March 1, 2008 @ 12:56 AM

Definitely follow up! by Hello Kitty Sat March 1, 2008 @ 9:10 PM


Good you had the $ by TargetVictim Sun March 2, 2008 @ 12:39 AM

Nope - no letter! by Hello Kitty Sun March 2, 2008 @ 12:37 PM

Before anyone else points it out... by Hello Kitty Sun March 2, 2008 @ 12:40 PM
by DSG12 Posted Thu February 28, 2008 @ 7:36 PM

Wow- that sucks. Hope you get back what you deserve.

Reply


I'm sure I will at some point by TargetVictim Thu February 28, 2008 @ 11:30 PM

by dulynoted Posted Thu February 28, 2008 @ 6:14 PM

This was probably a glitch in the system and you probably were not the
only one it happened to.
Understanding that your bank reversed the NSF charge and you can file
a dispute it makes one wonder where that extra cash went because
surely someones reciepts were at least $65.76 over on that day.

I too have been there with little gas for my car, no food but some
stale bread and a can of corn...and that was without such an issue as
yours.

At least the bank will help you out with this...and hopefully the
bank will get their money back from Target.


Reply


I wondered the same thing by TargetVictim Thu February 28, 2008 @ 11:32 PM


by SiouxFan Posted Thu February 28, 2008 @ 1:06 PM

First of all, you do deserve your money back and I don't think anyone
would argue against that.

However, this is not some sort of scam that you are eluding to with
your threats of a class action lawsuit. Sometimes the computer
glitches (accidentally) and people can be double charged. To remedy
this, all you have to do (and did) was to bring in your statements and
the manager or front end supervisor can investigate and reverse the
transaction. Why the manager at the time didn't do this, I don't
understand. Even with the reversal, it could take up to 48 hours to
debit the account especially for "debit" transactions, but it depends
on the bank.

That being said, you don't deserve to leave the situation better than
you came in. So all Target owes you is the obvious $65.76, and not the
full tank of gas or the week's worth of groceries.

Moreso, putting the word 'manager' in quotation marks indicates that
you doubt the validity of that person being an actual manager. That's
disrespectful no matter how you put it. Yes, this manager should have
helped you more, and was unprofessional as you describe, but they are
a manager nonetheless.

If your letter doesn't yield the results you are looking for, I would
recommend going back to the store and either speak to a Guest Service
Team Lead (the supervisor for the front lanes) or a different
manager.

Let us know how this works out.

Reply

I think it's time for some legislation by Adam W. Thu February 28, 2008 @ 6:16 PM

Target is lagging behind Wal-Mart--again?! by Keith C. Thu February 28, 2008 @ 6:47 PM


Cash refund by ams1001 Thu February 28, 2008 @ 9:08 PM


Target can issue cash, too. by BellaSera Fri February 29, 2008 @ 10:16 AM

Adam, the funds might leave your account immediately, but by Steve-Oh Thu February 28, 2008 @ 7:07 PM

I'm sure she DIDN'T talk to a manager by Keith C. Thu February 28, 2008 @ 6:35 PM


In response... by TargetVictim Thu February 28, 2008 @ 11:14 PM

by Andrew 1 Posted Thu February 28, 2008 @ 12:47 PM

I never like negotiation from a position of weakness. What you have
told your bank is, that you're a credit risk, and what you have told
Target is, that you're not a big customer. You have a valid complaint.
But since we don't live in a Socialist country, don't expect that
whining about what you went through (gas, bread, payday on Friday,
etc.) is going to make a difference. These revelations will actually
diminish your power to get your issue resolved.
MA Cunningham provides exactly what you neeed to do to get your
problems fixed. You will need to wait a while, and there is nothing
you can do about that. It's always a good idea to have ten bucks
stashed somewhere, just for an emergency.

Reply

Making a difference by Keith C. Thu February 28, 2008 @ 6:42 PM


MELANIE FAINTS!!!!! by MA Cunningham Thu February 28, 2008 @ 10:06 PM


You wrote... by Andrew 1 Fri February 29, 2008 @ 3:22 AM


Not understanding the "credit risk" statement by TargetVictim Thu February 28, 2008 @ 11:29 PM


The bank... by Andrew 1 Fri February 29, 2008 @ 3:20 AM

by BellaSera Posted Thu February 28, 2008 @ 10:27 AM

When I first read the title, I thought it was going to be another one
of those I-didn't-have-my-receipt-and-Target-wouldn't-give-me-a-refund
letters, but this is something entirely different. So I'm breaking my
no-more-Target-letters rule, and saying that I'm completely on your
side.

A similar thing happened to my husband and I at Perkins' restaurant
two years ago. We went there for breakfast, and my husband paid with
his credit card. A month later, he noticed they double-charged us. I
have no clue how it happened, but it took SIX MONTHS and my husband's
continual phone calls for them to issue a credit.

It's Target's mistake, and I think they should fix it, but I do hope
that whether it's your bank or Target that reverses the charge that
you do get your money back. And yes, leaving other people's financial
information with you is not only unprofessional, it's borderline
criminal.

I think you wrote a great letter for the most part. Good luck with all
this.

Reply


Six months??? Wow... by TargetVictim Thu February 28, 2008 @ 11:39 PM

by Shadowboxxx Posted Thu February 28, 2008 @ 10:04 AM

1. "After going through the whole story with the person on the
phone"..." got to Target, had to go through the whole story again with
a clerk"...what "whole story"? You were double charged for a
transaction and it caused an overdraft in your checking account. One
sentence. There's no long-winded explanation you had to repeat over
and over again.

2. "It's a good thing I'm an honest person and not inclined to steal
people's identities or use their cards fraudulently" -- that's EXACTLY
what an identity thief would say!!!

Stick to the facts...leave out your embarrassment and that your family
starved because of their error.

Reply


You must be a Target employee... by TargetVictim Thu February 28, 2008 @ 10:06 AM


Psssst.... by All About the Branding Thu February 28, 2008 @ 10:34 AM


Identity thief??? by TargetVictim Fri February 29, 2008 @ 2:26 AM

by MA Cunningham Posted Thu February 28, 2008 @ 9:50 AM

I'm with Harley that your demands at the end were above and beyond
necessary, in light of your refusal to ever shop there again.

HOWEVER. . .

I can't seem to wrap my head around how they managed to charge you
twice on a debit - If you only entered in your PIN one time, how did
the second duplicate charge get put through? It would make sense if
it was credit because those problems happen all the time. The system
glitches and the cashier scans the card twice or when the card gets
stuck in those LOVELY touch pad machines!

But for them to make you dispute the charge with your bank is
completely uncalled for. It was their error and their responsibility
to make it right. At least making your whole for what they mistakenly
charged you.

More than likely, the person you spoke with was either the GSTL or a
department LOD (manager on duty) but they still should have had the
sense to handle this for you. What I would do is go BACK to the store
and ask for the ETL (Executive Team Lead) and explain the situation
again. If you have any names of those you spoke with that refused to
help you, that would be a bonus. I know its a pain, but its better to
go in person.

If by chance the ETL also refuses to help (although thats not likely)
ask for the name and number of the regional director. This person is
over a number of stores in your area and is essentially an ETL's boss.
They don't like when customers go directly to the Regional because
that spells BIG trouble for the ETL (means they arent handling issues
in their store)

Its sad that you have to jump all these hoops just to get back whats
your's, but every once in a while, you get a team member with a stick
up their you-know-whats.

If Target does reverse the charge (as they should), make sure you call
your bank immediately so that they don't mistakenly continue their
investigation and double credit you.

Reply

Your last sentence could explain what they're thinking... by Steve-Oh Thu February 28, 2008 @ 10:10 AM

And so for a moment.... by Keith C. Thu February 28, 2008 @ 6:58 PM

Who said it would be a bad thing? by Steve-Oh Thu February 28, 2008 @ 7:01 PM

Your comment by Keith C. Thu February 28, 2008 @ 7:07 PM

I don't speak for Target. That may not have been the manager's thinking by Steve-Oh Thu February 28, 2008 @ 7:29 PM


Agreed, BUT by MA Cunningham Thu February 28, 2008 @ 10:11 PM

by Harleycat Posted Thu February 28, 2008 @ 8:51 AM

When I first saw this my thinking was "Oh no, not another complaint
about Target's return policy" but after reading this, you definitely
have a valid complaint. They should be turning handstands to correct
their mistake!

I do have to say two things. Asking for a full tank of gas and a
week's worth of groceries is a bit over the top especially since you
say you'll never step foot in there again. They have no incentive
here to give you anything but your money.

The other is your response that you searched the internet and found
tons of complaints against Target. You'll find that most of those
complaints are made by people trying to return things without a
receipt despite Target's well known and well posted return policy.
Those complaints have no merit while your's truly does.

Reply

Incentive by Keith C. Thu February 28, 2008 @ 7:05 PM


That was what I was counting on, Keith C., you got it... by TargetVictim Fri February 29, 2008 @ 2:11 AM


Since you're so savvy.. by Harleycat Fri February 29, 2008 @ 9:03 AM

Broken record by Keith C. Fri February 29, 2008 @ 3:17 PM


No Keith it's not incentive.. by Harleycat Fri February 29, 2008 @ 5:17 PM


I agree by SiouxFan Fri February 29, 2008 @ 8:23 PM


There's a lot more than one letter out there... by TargetVictim Fri February 29, 2008 @ 11:48 PM


Right.. by Harleycat Sat March 1, 2008 @ 9:03 AM


And by TargetVictim Tue March 4, 2008 @ 1:34 AM

So I again ask... by Keith C. Mon March 24, 2008 @ 3:12 AM


Why the negativity? by TargetVictim Fri February 29, 2008 @ 11:59 PM


My post was to Keith by Harleycat Sat March 1, 2008 @ 8:37 AM


Different approaches, that's all... by TargetVictim Sat March 1, 2008 @ 7:18 PM

strapped for cash? by Timothy C. Sat March 1, 2008 @ 2:57 PM

however... by Timothy C. Sat March 1, 2008 @ 3:01 PM


No apologies necessary... by TargetVictim Sat March 1, 2008 @ 7:27 PM


Fortunately for me by TargetVictim Sat March 1, 2008 @ 7:22 PM

by lissie Posted Thu February 28, 2008 @ 6:38 AM

WOW!!! Thats awful, I always keep 25 bucks in cash as emergency money
for reasons like this. I hope everything works out.

Reply

by puyro Posted Wed February 27, 2008 @ 11:54 PM

I don't understand how Target could not do a post void. I've worked at
Old Navy, and two times (that I know of) out of the 2 years I've
worked there a customer was charged twice. All they had to do was
bring in the receipt and their statement. The manager would look at
it, then bring up the receipt in the system and post void it which
*immediately* returned the money. The manager would then initial the
receipt noting that it was good - just had to do a post void because
of a double charge. (in case the customer had to return the items
because a post void essentially makes the receipt no longer exist)

If Target can't post void - they should have just "returned" the
items, and noted on the receipt that it was valid with initials of the
manager that did the return. Of course, the money might not be
immediately returned since it usually takes 2 - 3 days.

Being in the same boat you're in (always scraping money for all my
bills, groceries, gas) I would be VERY upset if this happened.

I don't think you're owed a full tank of gas or a week's work of
groceries. Systems make mistakes/glitch. I definitely think you
deserve an apology by phone or written letter.

Also since you did use it as a debit card (with a PIN) I'm assuming,
the money immediately debits out of your account, so I understand why
it was declined at the grocery store.

Unfortunately, I would NOT have let the bank reverse the NSF fee.
Because you usually only get one "freebie" If your account is
overdrawn again, they probably won't reverse it. Since it was Target's
fault they charged you twice - I would have asked for the entire 65.76
plus the NSF fee. If I had to go to corporate I would have. Of course
I notified my bank what was going on. (Yes I have done this before
when a subscription I canceled went through again - and I got ALL my
money back from the company)


Reply


I didn't understand it either! by TargetVictim Thu February 28, 2008 @ 12:42 AM


WHOOPS! by MA Cunningham Thu February 28, 2008 @ 9:57 AM


Returning by puyro Thu February 28, 2008 @ 11:23 AM

Post void by Pridd Thu March 13, 2008 @ 10:25 AM

by Knuckles Posted Wed February 27, 2008 @ 11:11 PM

You were treated poorly, but you aren't owed anything more than the
NSF fee and a refund of the second charge. You got the NSF, so that
leaves the second charge.

There is no incentive for the store to give you more than you are owed
anyway, since you said you will never set foot there again.

Reply


On the subject of incentive for Target... by TargetVictim Thu February 28, 2008 @ 12:06 AM


Class action suit? by All About the Branding Thu February 28, 2008 @ 10:38 AM


The problem with returning by MA Cunningham Thu February 28, 2008 @ 9:55 AM


by RedheadwGlasses Posted Wed February 27, 2008 @ 10:48 PM

Before I say anything else, let me say that I'm completely on your
side. It would be obvious to anyone with a logical brain that you
were double-charged by Target. That the exact same amount was charged
twice in a very short period of time makes that clear. (Not to
mention how much work you're going to in order to get this made
right.) I also know what it's like to be *very* broke and scraping by
until the next paycheck. It sure teaches a person an appreciation for
homemade soup and peanut butter & jelly sandwiches! ;)

BUT:

1. Your debit card should have gone through at the grocery store,
even if it would have left you with an overdraft charge at your bank.
Debit card purchases aren't really done in "real time" like that.
I've experienced that problem, and there have been letters here from
people complaining about a debit card transaction going through when
there wasn't enough money in the account: They assumed a card would
be rejected, so no transaction/purchase would take place. They
wouldn't have what they had gone shopping for, but they also wouldn't
be facing the NSFs either. So why that happened to you, I don't know.


2. You could have just returned the whole $65 purchase to Target (or
the things you really could have waited another week for--TP is
necessary, but we can live without things like dishwasher detergent
and fabric softener) and at least had THAT money returned to your
account in the mean time.

Neither #1 nor #2 makes what Target did excusable in any way. I think
the manager behaved horribly.

I'm usually on Target's side because I see so many silly (to me)
claims and complaints. The only problem I have with your letter is
your demand for a tank of gas and a week's worth of groceries. Stick
to what you're really owed: The $65.76 and the resulting NSF that
your bank hit you with.

Good luck! While I really like Target, I have to admit that if this
happened to me, I'd think twice before shopping there again, or at
least at that store with THAT manager.

Reply


As you already know by ♥Venice♥ Wed February 27, 2008 @ 11:06 PM


Thanks for clarifying for me! by RedheadwGlasses Wed February 27, 2008 @ 11:14 PM


If all debit/credit cards by ♥Venice♥ Wed February 27, 2008 @ 11:23 PM


Oh, and... by ♥Venice♥ Wed February 27, 2008 @ 11:25 PM


Debit Vs. Credit by puyro Wed February 27, 2008 @ 11:42 PM


I guess it varies by ♥Venice♥ Thu February 28, 2008 @ 12:05 AM


Bank by puyro Thu February 28, 2008 @ 12:36 AM


I didn't get charged a fee to use the debit card... by TargetVictim Thu February 28, 2008 @ 12:45 AM


Yeah, I know, I was talking about Venice's fee for using it as debit N/T by puyro Thu February 28, 2008 @ 12:49 AM


It's a small local bank by ♥Venice♥ Thu February 28, 2008 @ 12:47 AM


Re: by puyro Thu February 28, 2008 @ 12:54 AM


Bank Of America by Squad 51 KMG 365 (aka rxgirl) Thu February 28, 2008 @ 1:15 AM


Same here, Venice by Beeracuda Fri February 29, 2008 @ 6:03 PM

You're paying more, that's why by Keith C. Thu February 28, 2008 @ 7:21 PM


On the flip side by Melissa S. Fri February 29, 2008 @ 9:20 AM


Thanks for the reply, and here's my response... by TargetVictim Wed February 27, 2008 @ 11:59 PM


Credit Union by puyro Thu February 28, 2008 @ 12:31 AM


I don't like doing it... by TargetVictim Thu February 28, 2008 @ 12:37 AM

Pending by Keith C. Thu February 28, 2008 @ 7:14 PM


I do know by Mel2007 Thu February 28, 2008 @ 1:53 PM


Fees by Mel2007 Thu February 28, 2008 @ 2:05 PM

Not necessarily by Keith C. Thu February 28, 2008 @ 6:54 PM


That was my final conculsion by TargetVictim Thu February 28, 2008 @ 11:19 PM




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